tabernackle installation

[jdoorly]

I just got a tabernacle from D&R and was considering installing it higher in the mast than the 26.5 and 28" cuts specified in the instructions. I want to be able to leave the boom on the mast stub and supported by the boom gallows I just built.

I would also like to leave the mainsail hanked on but the design of the tabernacle precludes this. I suppose I could cut away the slot part of the mast steps and cut a slot in the plates to allow access thru the tabernacle when the aft hinge pin is out. But I'm leary of changing the design too much and a new mast costs more than the boat did! I'm also worried that the longer stub might not take the forces of raising the mast or that I'm courting some unknown catastrophic failure. On the other hand these mods would sure make soloing easier.

Has anyone installed a tabernacle up closer to the B2 mark?
Has anybody modified a tabernacle?

[1965healy]

I like the idea of being able to leave the boom on the mast as well, there are cat boats that do this and it would be great to be able to do it on a DS. Do you have any pix/plans for your boom gallows? Also any info on your bow pulpit install/parts etc would be cool.

[jdoorly]

I will be uploading some more pics tonight, I hope you can get your questions answered when you see them.

[jdoorly]

I uploaded 4 pics yesterday because that's how many I had. Today I uploaded 4 more pics, when I tried to upload more I kept getting an error message that said my pic's size was too big (but it wasn't). I tried several pics but kept getting the same message.

Is there some pics per day limit on uploading?

[GreenLake]

There are two limits. The file size in KB and the pixel dimension. You can upload an 800 wide x 600 tall picture in landscape orientation, but you can only upload a 600 tall picture in portrait orientation (in other words, the width of that will be less than 600).

Also, if you have a very complicated picture, or the JPEG compression is set to "high quality" your file size could be too large. The file size limit on this site is rather generous, but some resize utilities only give you very coarse control over it, like "low", "medium" and "high".

There still may be other limits - I've never tried to upload more than about three at a time, so I wouldn't have hit any hidden limits, but I've not seen any such thing mentioned anywhere.

So, first, try to look at the pixel dimensions and file size in bytes and see whether they are within limits.

[Alan]

Wow. Nice additions. The battery box is a work of art.

Did you encounter any surprises when you opened up the cuddy floor? I've been thinking about doing the same thing, for the same reason, but the prospect is a little intimidating.

[jdoorly]

Greenlake your absolutely spot on. I kept thinking all my pics were 640x480 but the problem ones were 480x640, thanks.

1965healy, the problem with locating the hinge near "B2" is that if you don't have the mast well supported 'in column' the mast can fall and make your nice stainless tabernackle into into something that looks like crumpled paper! This happened to me when I had the boat careened over to fix my centerboard cables. I switched the halyard that was holding the mast forward so I could attach the little seat to the bow pulpit. The new halyard didn't have quite enough tension and when we started easing the boat back toward level the mast tried to bend at the hinge and came tumbling down. I ordered new parts to replace the mangled ones. Also, I was sailing today and the wind was strong. I couldn't get the jib and DRS halyards at tight as I wanted and later found the mast 'flexing' the hinge. I tried several times to tighten the halyards and get the mast and mast stub back in column but couldn't, so we dropped sails and limped home on that stupid trolling motor. My thinking at this point is to put back the forestay that I took off when I mounted the furlers, at the suggestion of the sailmaker, and use some lever mechanism with it to get adequate pull on the mast and not depend on the halyards to keep the mast in column. And then find some way to increase leverage on the furler halyards as a separate issue. But, leaving the main hanked on is worth trying somemore ideas.

The boom gallows was just one of those senior moments that happened near the belt sander. I look at it now and say "What the hell are the wings for?"

I didn't know how much leverage I would need when I made the A-frame/bow pulpit so I started with a 6' x 7/8" stainless tube inside a 6' x 1" thinwall stainless tube. And I've made 3 or 4 changes in their overall length. I think it's about 8.5' now from the hinge plate by the shrouds to the crossbar which is 10" of 7/8" tube. Inside the crossbar is a 5'x3/8" bolt, a 2.5" x3/8" coupler, and a 6"x3/8 bolt. On the outside of the 10" tube is a 1"x~2"spacer, a 1" tube "T" fitting, an SS "S" hook, a 1.5" spacer, another 1" "T" fitting, and 1"x~2" spacer. The 4::1 purchases' snap shackle is attached to the "S" hook which has been forged into an eye and 'pinched' so it stays on the 10" tube. The 2 "T" fittings attach to 2 vertical members (stantions) made of 7/8"x~27" SS tubes, these tubes join deck fittings and these deck fittings are the only fittings using the stupid-ass set screws that came with them. No, the tube hinge plates also have s-a-s-s. I formed a chunk of oak into a shape probably inspired by some post modern Euro toilet seat, to keep the little sharp edges away from the DRS. Whew!

Thanks Alan, I aim high but usually fall short. I used a jigsaw to cut the cabin sole, my sons Fein Multimaster would have been better but he was using it that day. Don't get too close to the sides, I nicked up the hull a little there. I was surprised by the way the mast base was supported, just a piece of saturated fiberglass just sort of thrown in there. I guess to a man with a hammer a nail is always the solution.

[thumb=896]

[GreenLake]

The purpose of the "code" is to allow you to show somebody else what instructions to type. If you edit your post and remove the code and /code and the set of enclosing square brackets for each, then you'll get to see the thumbnail, instead of seeing the code for the thumbnail.

(Make sure you leave one set of square brackets around the thumb=896)

[algonquin]

I really like your mods. Really custom !

Do you leave your Pulpit/A- frame in place when under sail ? Looks like it could make tacking a bit of a challenge. Just curious.

The battery weight must have made a positive difference to your boat handling. Also in your photo file you mention switching to a bronze centerboard.. Have you computed how much weight that may add. ? I have thought about doing something similar to my DSI. I mainly cruise and I believe that extra ballast may help when sailing solo.

Kudos again on your mods !! Brad

[jdoorly]

Thanks Greenlake, I was wondering why that pic ref didn't work!

Thanks Brad. When I raise or lower the mast the A-frame is up. Other than that it slides onto the upright tubes, I pull the purchase tight, and it's a sturdy pulpit. I haven't had any problems with the pulpit interfering with the jib or jib sheets when tacking. Neither have I had problems with the DRS, though my experience with the DRS is much more limited.

The old battery was 41 lbs and I kept it in the stern This battery came with the boat but had not been treated right by the previous owner or by me, and it gave me nothing but trouble. But I read-up on batteries before I bought the new ones. I learned the first rule of batteries is to recharge them immediately after use, sitting there uncharged reduces their life. The second rule is to use a smart charger. The third rule is try not to let the battery's output voltage get below 12 volts, this also reduces battery life. I think everybody already knows to use a 'deep cycle' battery. With this wisdom in hand I knew I should include a voltmeter and ammeter in the power distribution system. I think I got the last Delco Voyager M30 available, and try as I might I couldn't get another. So, I settled for an M27 gel. They were 64 and 61 lbs and the smart charger was surprisingly heavy at 7 lbs, so I put about 134 lbs between the mast and centerboard as low as could possibly be accomplished while putting waterproofed wood between the battery and water, which is the fourth rule. The batteries are inside a wooden box that I fiberglased, and then fiberglased the box to the hull. The batteries are captured in the box and can't shift even if upside down. The top of the box is several inches higher than where the old cabin sole was. The removable top houses meters, circuit breakers and the battery selector. When this project was completed I went into the water and carefully checked how the water hit the waterline, and I found the boat was heavy (probably due to all the interior foam and wood being soaking wet) but was riding with perfect for'n'aft trim, unlike when I checked previously.

The batteries's 134 lbs is centered about 6" below the waterline, that gives it 67 foot-pounds of righting force. Not very much. A 150 lb person sitting on the rail would be about 3' times 150 or 450 foot-pounds. 2 people on the rail is 900 ft lbs. if my calculations are correct, and there is room for doubt, the centerboard contains 0.299 cubic feet which I'll call .3, and here's what force some different materials would give you...
ManOnRail 150 lbs or 450 ft lbs
Aluminum CB 50 lbs or 150 ft lbs
Iron CB 135 lbs or 405 ft lbs
Steel CB 147 lbs or 441 ft lbs
Bronze CB 150 lbs or 450 ft lbs (same as a person on the rail)
Lead CB 210 lbs or 630 ft lbs
Mercury CB 254 lbs or 764 ft lbs (lemme know how this works out)

You can increase the board's width or depth but I'd say any CB weighing above 60lbs probably needs the pivot and the up-haul re-enforced.

[hectoretc]

The batteries are inside a wooden box that I fiberglased, and then fiberglased the box to the hull. The batteries are captured in the box and can't shift even if upside down. The top of the box is several inches higher than where the old cabin sole was. The removable top houses meters, circuit breakers and the battery selector.

jdoorly- if you see this... first I want to again commend and salute the very creative updates and changes you've made to Desperado.

My question is off topic for this subject, but it looks like this thread has drifted a bit from the original subject of tabernacle installations anyway.

I'm browsing through some of the older posts always looking for new information and I am very interested in your battery placement idea, but wonder how you managed the relocation of the centerboard down-haul line that must have "used to be" dead center in the middle of your new battery box.
Appreciate any comments on that you'd care to share...
Thanks!

[jdoorly]

Hi hectoretc,

The prep I did to figure out battery location was first to assume since the boat was designed to carry around 600 pounds max (3 people and some equipment) that adding battery weight was feasible, and second, I weighed everything on board and also measured its' distance from the center of gravity which I assumed was at the centerboard pivot. I popped these numbers into a spreadsheet and played 'what if' I put the new batteries there, or there, or here. I was pleased to see that putting the batteries just behind the mast, my first choice, looked like a good balance. And it was, since the next time I checked the water against the waterline it was horizontal to the painted waterline, however the boat was heavy. However, now (a year later) the boat trims by the bow and I haven't discovered why.

The picture below shows the relationship of the battery box to the centerboard uphaul (the downhaul comes out of the centerboard box about 18 inches aft of the hatch. The front of the battery box is 4 or 5 inched aft of the mast base:
[thumb=893]
I cut out the cabin floor (inner hull) to get the batteries as low as possible. I've now replaced the floor, around the box, with 6mm plywood and screws every 6 inches, but I miss the extra space!

[hectoretc]

Thanks jdoorly for the update.
So you cut out the entire cuddy floor? At first I though you had just cut a hole for the battery box, but now looking at the photo I see the fiberglass cloth textures, and reading again your comments I realize thats what you did. So the cuddy floor provides no structural componet I'm assuming? My DSII came with a very severe crack in the cuddy floor, probably about 14-16 inces in total length that basically starts maybe an inch or two stern and port of the corner of your battery box, curves under to just about the centerline going forward, and the veers port again pretty much ending in the forward port corner of your box. I'm fairly certain this boat spent a winter season partially submerged with a gaping bow hole allowing the bilge and cuddy to flood, and the water/ice expanded in the bow bilge and broke through the floor. The only explanation that makes sense when I look at the high water mark on the cuddy walls and the fact that the fiberglass floor broke upward at that point.
Given that I am going to have to do some repair in that section anyway, I thought I might capitalize on your experience and do something similar.
If you removed the entire floor, how do you accomplish that without cutting/compromising the hull supporting structures underneath? Is the sole physically attached anywhere other than the edges?
Thanks again for the information, really very useful.

[jdoorly]

I cut the floor using a jigsaw, a vibrating saw (fein multimaster) would probably be quicker. I first made an exploratory hole 8 inches aft of the mast so I could see what the mast support looked like and where I could make my forward athwartship cut. On the sides and next to the hatch bulkhead my cut was 2 inches in from the edge. I left a 2 inch lip around the centerboard case. I also added cleats to the battery box.

This 2 inch lip and the cleats gave me full support for and a good place to later screw in the replacement plywood panels. If I were doing it over again I would leave more lip on the sides because the jigsaw tip touched the inside of the hull in a couple spots although no harm was down. Of course it's not an issue if you cut a smaller hole.

The floor from a few inches aft of the mast and forward was not touched. I think a DS2 is a lot more seaworthy and safe than a DS1 because of its' larger volume of 'air tanks' and I want to preserve that, but the extra space was appreciated while it lasted.

There was one 'stringer' (1.5" semi-circle of fiberglass covered foam) under and attached to the floor. The floor is attached to the hull only at the mast support and hull sides.

[GreenLake]

I don't own a DS2, so pardon my question. It's mere curiosity.

But I wonder whether cutting the floor won't allow water to collect between it and the hull (the replacement panels are probably not watertight).

Wouldn't that effect that flotation effect?