a good starter boat

[klrgreen]

is a 17ft 70s o'day a good boat for a beginner? i have been out on a j24 and ranger 23 a few times and i am lookin at an o'day 17...any thoughts from you experienced folks. btw i am 30, a surfer and in great physical shape.. been lookin at cats too!

[Roger]

A DS is a very forgiving boat for a beginner, but it can also handle like a bigger boat, so can challenge you to sail better, faster, flatter. It has great performance so that as your skills increase, you will see the boat improve as well. I sailed mine for four years and only moved up because I wanted sitting headroom , better sleeping accomodations and more storage.

[klrgreen]

cool thanks....i was worried it was too fickle after reading one guys post....as a boat that i will be trailering what is the estimated time to set it up once at the water and how much of the riging can i leave on the boat in transport.mostly i will be driving it 4-10 miles to put in?

[calden]

The DS is a very versatile boat. It can be sailed very easily and conservatively with little heeling (don't forget to put the centerboard down - don't ask how I know this...) and is great for a beginner.

BUT it can also be a wild ride, main sheet pulled way in with a flat sail on centerline, hiking way out with the tiller extension in your hand, feet under the hiking straps, and the spray in your face.

Check out these pictures (which I can't seem to make appear in the post, despite using BBCode...)

http://album.sailboatowners.com/detail?photo=3145
http://album.sailboatowners.com/detail?photo=4187

It'll be more like a surfboard than a J/24.

Once you get the hang of things you ought to be able to rig it up in 30 minutes easily. I flake or roll the mainsail on the boom, ready to haul up as soon as the boom goes on, for instance.

If you want ease of rigging, find a boat that has a mast step hinge. (Some of the Daysailers have a keel-stepped mast, which means you pick the mast up vertically and drop it into the hole in the deck and align it with a pin in the bottom of the boat.) With a hinge it's easy. Unstrap the mast from the mast crutchs, move it aftward until the hinge lines up with the mast base, pin the hinge pin, then walk it up into vertical position. With this boat you can set the shrouds to the correct length, leave the mast down, then when it's raised the shrouds are already adjusted - nothing to do. You MIGHT have to slacken the forestay to pin that, but usually just pulling taut on the halyard pulls it fore enough.

It's really thus raising the mast, pinning the forestay, bending the sails on, throwing the motor and rudder on, attaching docklines and fenders, and getting it in the water. Oh, and don't forget the sunscreen.

carlos

[klrgreen]

thanks carlos for the info. all good info. i am going to look at it today but i think he is asking too much.about thehinge for the mast can the hinge be added if it is not set up that way?

[calden]

Get back to the forum on the condition of the boat and asking price and we might be able to tell you if it's reasonable. Not me, personally, because my boat's a DSI and older, but there are so many great owners here.

Yes, the hinge can be added. It would be my guess that a 70's boat would probably already have a hinged mast.

This is a subject of debate here on the forum. Some people will tell you that this devalues the mast and thus the boat for resale value, and that an uncut, one-piece mast is stiffer and better for racing and handling in general. Others will state that the value added by making it much easier to step is worth cutting the mast and adding the hinge.

My DS had a one-piece mast that I decided to hinge after stepping it once. It's not hard to step a one-piece, but it does involve a good sense of balance, for you are standing on the deck with the mast raised vertically above you, inserting the bottom end into the deck. The boat cannot be rocking on the trailer and any amount of wind can bring it down. It's tricky but it can be done, and it gets easier with a little practice. With two people it's much easier. For me. I wanted to be able to solo easily. It's incredibly easy to raise the mast with a hinge.

Adding the hinge is a ~$70 prospect, and involves cutting the mast at the deck level and putting in the upper and lower portions of the hinge, drilling holes and adding screws or rivets (or tapping and driving in machine screws.) It's not hard at all - a tape measure, sharpie marker and hacksaw are all you need - but does require a strong "measure twice and cut once" ethic. Oh, and you need a good dose of, er, testicular fortitude to start the first cut.

For all the pros and cons of doing this, please use the search feature and look up "mast step hinge" or "cut mast" or variations thereof, and find the threads. There are good reasons to add a hinge and good reasons to leave the mast alone.

Carlos

[John Russell]

Where are you? I have one in northern Ohio if you're interested. See my post in For Sale forum.

[klrgreen]

sorry john i am near orlando fl:( but there are plenty of boats here. thanks...why you selling it btw?

[John Russell]

Actually, the Admiral said we should buy a larger boat so, this season, we are enjoying Kaija, our Catalina 250.

[klrgreen]

cool i like the catalina as well... i think i should start on something smaller though and easier to trailer with regard to set up and such...

[klrgreen]

ok just got back from lookin at the boat..i think the price is way too high but i guess people expect you to bargain them down to what they think it should be....the baoat is badly faded and there is cracking of the fiberglass on various spots around the rolled edge, the sails are there but old and most likely will need to be replaced if this was going to be used often....there are a few cleats that need to be replaced and no motor.....the cabin part looks very clean and the mast and all other hardware is there but old looking! i think it is a 5-8 hundred dollar boat but i do not want to insult the guy.....ill keep lookin..this is a great site though and everyone is real helpful....what is the best small boat with a sleepable cabin for a beginning sailor?
thanks
rob

[Roger]

The DS is good as a starter sailboat, but sleeping is extremely basic. You need to crawl into the cuddy feet first, and there is no sitting headroom. There is little room for extra gear like camping gear. Any boat in the 18 to 20 foot range starts to give you a little bit more comfort for overnighting, but the DS II will allow you to sleep aboard. I did it ONCE!

[calden]

rob:

There are a zillion small boats that have some sleeping room. First one that comes to mind is a West Wight Potter 15 or 19. The 19 is huge inside for only 19'. The 15 is not bad, either. A friend has the Potter 19 and it's really a great camping boat. It's not very nimble, though, or fast, which is actually one of it's virtues - it's very stable. There's a story of someone sailing one to Hawaii. I'm sure you wouldn't want to do that with a DS.

Here's a good website for owners of small trailerables -You can get tons of information about various boats there:

http://www.trailersailer.com/

As far as the price on a DS goes, it's certainly reasonable, and not insulting, to say something like, "This boat is not bad, and if the sails were much newer and it had an engine, and once I get through the chalky faded gelcoat I might see that it actually needs repainting... I think that I could offer $1,000 less so I could bring it back to proper condition." True, if the owner has had it for a while and bought it a long time ago at 1970's prices, he might not really realize the current market value. However if it's something you want you can tell him to check around the internet and see if your offer's reasonable.

Carlos

[klrgreen]

cool thanks for all the info again this is a really good site. im going to look at the other site linked above. how is the dsII for speed? seems to me with the proper sails one could get it movin.

[hriehl1]

For all virtues mentioned, it is a great starter boat. My wife and I, in our mid-50s, are in the water and sailing within 20-25 minutes of hitting the ramp (hinged mast), though we have the drill down perfectly.

Earlier this week we had it up well over 8 MPH according to our GPS... with 4 adults aboard and still far from "the edge" since one of our crew was not experienced.

Other virtues that may be less obvious...

- boom above head-level... if you're new or will be taking crew new to sailing. a boom above head level can save some knocks to the head... one might even call it a safety feature. I dismissed a Chrysler Buccaneer (a faster and popular alternative to a DS) for that reason (though since you are in your 20s and athletic, the Bucc may be another boat to look into).

- Superb Parts availability... While vacationing in the boonies of Maine for a week last year, we popped 4 or 5 shroud strands... so back to the dock we limped. One phone call to Rudy at D&R Marine and we had an entire replacement set the next morning via Fed-Ex... we lost less than 24 hours.

- Huge pool of owners... a huge number of boats out there means a huge body of knowledge (Roger's terrific DIY repair book, this forum, etc.). You'll also see used sails and similar DS stuff on E-Bay.

I'm in New England, a sailing hotbed, so we have many boats for sale. I see DaySailers advertised all day long for under $2,000... around here $1,500 seems to be the sweet spot for a decent sailable DS with decent trailer and servicable sails... maybe even an outboard too.

I got mine in what I'd call overall above-average condition for $1,200... with a nice 2.2 HP outboard. I've probably put another $500 into it for trailer re-furb, standing rigging and other odds-and-ends, but at still less than $2,000 we have a very fun sailboat that is VERY trailerable.