Soda bottle flotation

[GreenLake]

To me it sounds like people are overthinking the flotation.

If the boat is not holed, and righted in a reasonable amount of time, then it doesn't matter what backup flotation you are using. The primary flotation is the air in the tanks (or more correctly, the volume of the tanks).

Backup flotation comes into play only if the tanks are no longer airtight. This can happen over time (but then you should try to fix that) or when the boat is holed (perhaps during a collision leading to a capsize).

Normally, the thinking would be that such conditions happen more rarely, and that therefore, the design target for the backup flotation could be a bit more limited (focused on preventing the boat from sinking, less focused on getting it to right as easily as with full airtank volume).

Getting close to the same amount of flotation makes sense, but worrying about the last few percent does not (in my view). (The most likely damage to a hull would be a jagged crack, not a nice open hole, that's just my guess, though. I've had my boat "gored" once, but never capsized, so what do I know )

Worrying about flotation after an "the front fell off" scenario seems, well, not pointless, but, yes, that's definitely something I would see in the realm of true "last ditch emergency". This is addressed, partially, by having three tanks to begin with, so my expectation was that even if the front fell off, there would be a part of the boat still floating.

If I was to enter the Texas200 or a similar long-distance venture, I might place higher demands on backup and last-ditch solutions, because the consequences are more severe, but I think even in those contexts, I would first worry about mast-head flotation, because a capsize from which I couldn't recover would be everything as bad.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not arguing against doing a decent job with flotation, but for doing a bit of risk analysis and prioritizing things.

[talbot]

Makes sense. On the other hand, if my boat is sinking, I can reach in, pull out a couple of noodles, and have something to play with while I'm waiting for rescue. Maybe I'll stuff a rubber ducky in there, too.

[hectoretc]

I think I mentioned this somewhere already, but maybe I meant to and kept thinking there must be a reason it's wrong, so I've sat on it.
But it seems to me (standard stupidity disclaimer), that with all of the air pockets or tanks predominantly located in the sides and the lower ½ of the boat, as in the bilge under the cuddy and cockpit floors, a capsized boat will want to to turtle, mast not-withstanding because the floatation is in the bottom portion of the boat, and the weight is on the top of the boat (not rocket science).
I’ve read about concerns for watertighting the cuddy because if that floods during a capsize, the hopes of righting the boat go to near nil.
I have no experience in this at all so I’m only going off what I’ve read in these posts.
To me… it seems like putting the floatation in the tops of the seat backs going down, putting flotation in the roof of the cuddy and upper cuddy sides, and leaving the bilge open to flood, would be more effective to right the boat, and then be able to pump out the water (heavy part down, light part up).
What is wrong with that thinking?

[talbot]

Yes, you (or someone else) made this point before. So I put my noodles into the space above the tanks. If you cram a big noodle in first, it wedges between the tank and outer hull. That prevents noodle sag, a condition characterized by loose noodles in the bilge. The noodles then pile up all the way to the coaming, or until Toys R Us runs out in their spring sale.

[jdoorly]

I hope other people are clicking on "the front fell off" in Greenlakes post, it's hilarious!

[hectoretc]

Thanks for the pointer... No, I didn't realize it was a link...
That was fantastic! Great find GL!

[DavidF]

After all of this talk about using soda bottles for flotation, I am curious if they make noise when you tack, etc.

[jeadstx]

I should be able answer the question on whether the bottles make noise after I sail this weekend. I have several of them in my hull somewhere. On the Texas 200 back in June, we started out with 14 gallons of water in small bottles. We decided on the first day to open an inspection port in the rail and put our empties in there. I had put the inspection port in when I installed my oars. After six days of sailing we had a lot of empties (we drank about 12 gallons of water) in there. Since I haven't sailed since then due to a damaged rudder, last weekend I opened up the port to get the bottles out. I can only find about a dozen of them. I guess they have distributed themselves throughout the hull with the pool noodles. Now with a repaired rudder, I'll be sailing this weekend in the Wurstfest Regatta on Canyon Lake (central Texas). I may be able to hear some of the rattling around in there.

John

[hectoretc]

I should be able answer the question on whether the bottles make noise after I sail this weekend.

John - Just curious if you heard any bottles rattling in your bilge as referenced above.

All- I plan on using the swim noodles for ballast floatation behind the cockpit seats but due to the size and shape of the forward floatation chamber, I'm planning on doing the plastic bottle thing up there. I switched from Diet Coke in cans to 2 liter bottles some time back and am amassing bags of empty bottles as I am able (I hate to drink more Phenylalanine than I already do, just to get the bottles).

My assumption has been, that 2 liter bottles would be preferred over twice as many one liter bottles or smaller, because (I think) the ratio of air space to plastic and cap weight would be maximized with the larger bottles. Does that sound reasonable to others, or is the difference negligible? My workplace provides free beverages which includes juice in 10 oz bottles, so if the bottle size is not really a factor, I can probably get all of the small bottles I could ever use for all of my floatation tanks from here in the next month or two.

Does anyone have an opinion (or specific knowledge) about the bottle volume vs. bottle weight ratio between smaller and larger plastic bottles?

Thanks - Scott

[jeadstx]

Scott,

Didn't hear anything from the bottles that I know are somewhere in my hull. Since I also have pool noodles in there, they might not be bouncing around too much. That weekend we had heavy winds one day and light winds the next. The day with heavy winds they probably moved all over the place in there, we put the port rail under water twice filling the cockpit with water (didn't capsize tho).

John

[jdubes]

I might be converting to this, a pack of 6 for 9 bucks on Ebay. There the perfect size and could be setup so I can fill them if necessary.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Inflatable-Swimming-Pool-Noodles-Doodles-Six-Pack-/130391582627?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5bf1a7a3

[hectoretc]

I might be converting to this, a pack of 6 for 9 bucks on Ebay. There the perfect size and could be setup so I can fill them if necessary.

Looking at ebay, it looks like it's a pack of six for $19 bucks, which is still pretty good, (not as good as $9 bucks though... you had me excited about it...

[hectoretc]

I might be converting to this, a pack of 6 for 9 bucks on Ebay. There the perfect size and could be setup so I can fill them if necessary.

But they are $9 bucks on Amazon... (just short of $17 with shipping)

http://www.amazon.com/Inflatable-Swimmi ... B002QG2Q9Y

I wonder how durable they are...

[jdubes]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-Noodles-Doodles-Inflatable-Noodles-6-pack-Pool-/350341352327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5191f8cb87

Here is the 9 dollar one.

[hectoretc]

Greetings all,

It's going to be 50-70 degrees all of this next week in the land of 10,000 frozen lakes, hopefully quickening their return to a liquid state.

I scored an excellent price on pool noodles this week as my local retailer loaded the shelves with summer fun stock (yet another sign of impending warm weather). They had the noodles on the shelf priced at $.48 each (as opposed to the correct $1.98 ) so I bought two cases (about 50) that they had out before they realized the error. I suspect they still made money, but not as much on this initial batch.

So gathering my bargin noodles and winter supply of 2 liter bottles (I've promised myself to drink nothing but water for the entire summer to compensate for exceeding my lifetime maximum dosage of Nutra-Sweet this winter) I hauled the load up to the boat. The noodles are obvious and self explanitory, but as I'm preparing to fill the forward hold with 2 ltr bottles I re-
read all of the postings here about it, and have a question.

Rather than pre-compressing the bottles down 10-15% to offset the expansion of the trapped air when it gets hot, possibly bursting the bottle(s), can someone tell me why drilling a 1/16" or 1/32" hole in the cap of each wouldn't work to neutralize the pressure?
Assuming they are generally in a dry space there wouldn't be a long term seepage issue, and if I can generally postion them cap down, any water that would get in (which would assume standing water in the bilge) would be self pumped out by further heating/cooling cycles once the bilge is dry again.
Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,