End of Boom Rigging & Rigging of Mainsheet Downhaul

[danamags]

Fellow DS2 folks,

Problem 1.

Can you look at the photo here and tell me if I've got the end of the boom rigged properly? Does the outhaul line cleat on the simple cleat midway along the boom? Also, does I feel like it is wrong, but cannot figure out how it might otherwise be rigged? I've searched on the forum a bit, but have not been able to find a correct picture of a DS2 boom.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1007155499 ... 9734906498

Problem 2.

What is wrong with this picture? I feel like the boom is very low and the downhaul does not have much effect. I am not confident that the line running through block labeled #1 is the right one? What would this otherwise be used for? On #2, is this eyelet for a line that will then fasten to the cleat below it? Also, there is a chaffe point from the block on the mast at #3 which runs the line from the jib halyard to a cleat further towards the back of the cuddy cover. Does anyone else have this issue or should I cross the two halyards to the opposing cleats to ensure the proper angle and eliminate chaffing?

https://picasaweb.google.com/1007155499 ... 4864082562

Thanks for any help on both of these issues.

DM

[GreenLake]

In the first photo there's something that does not look right

The outhaul is supposed to pull the clew of the sail back. It's something that you'd want to be able to adjust easily while underway, because different winds and different points of sail require different adjustments.

On my sail I found I need a 4:1 purchase between the cringle in the clew and the hole in the boom-end fitting. I use a very small singe block tied to the clew and a double block tied to the fitting and then run the line from the sail, through the blocks to a cleat far enough along the boom that I can reach it when I want to adjust things. (I'll see whether I can locate a picture).

I also have a cheek block on my boom, about where it is in the picture, but I use it for my reef line. The reef cringle is further forward when the sail is reefed, so this location will still give me good tension aft.

[GreenLake]

On the second picture the gooseneck position is indeed a bit lower than on my boat.


Are you able to raise your sail higher? Or is your mast shorter?

The gooseneck of my boat attaches with a line to the cleat below. That is indeed similar to the way your setup works.

Where is the cringle in the sail for your line marked #1? If it is about 6" above the boom, it would be a downhaul (Cunningham). If it is about 18" above the boom, it would be a reef point (especially if there's a matching one near the leech of the sail). Impossible to tell from you picture.

However, that's how I would rig a Cunningham if i had a block on deck where yours is.

Instead of a cheek block at #3, I have a horn cleat on my mast; I don't see the benefit of leading the halyard aft - if I were to adjust it more often, I might upgrade to a cam cleat. Having more adjustments than I know how to use properly isn't going to make me sail better or faster, so I tend to go slow and add them incrementally as I learn how to really use them.

I don't know what to suggest about chafe, except that it would seem to be mostly a matter at downwind angles. You should be able to loosen line #1 in those conditions.

[Skippa]

Danamags
I am sure others will respond and probably with better explanations. Mine is a simple non-race rig but here are my observations.
Pic One.
It appears you are using a turning block that is permantly mounted near the end of the boom that is intended as the "outhaul" for reefing the mainsail.
My rig is similar, you need to attach a block to the end of the boom, tie or splice a small diameter line to the clew of your main, run it to the block at mast end and then to a cleat towards mid boom, Use this set up as a method to "haul-out" the clew of the mainsail.
Pic Two.
Again, it appears you are using tackle intended for a reefed mainsail. the small diameter line in your picture that is attached below the gooseneck is your primary downhaul. Secure this light line to the small cleat that is in the center of your mast just above deck level. The heavier line that you have running through block one could be either for reefing the main or as a cunningham downhaul adjustment. It does not appear that you are getting full hoist on the main.
There are many ways to rig a mainsail and I am sure others will respond probably with better detail.
If you dont get it noodled out I can post photo's tomorrow.
Good luck, dont give up, your close.
Kevin

[dbk0630]

As you raise the main, you should be able to lift the boom up in the slot of the mast a good foot or so... i.e., until the main gets to the top. It took me several sails to realize that I could do that. In order to raise the boom you need to release the downhaul from the cleat at the base of the mast and leave slack in the main sheet. Having the boom higher was an epiphany... I no longer had to duck as the boom came across (insert favorite smilely here)... and I could actually adjust the downhaul as needed.

[talbot]

Right. Ignore the reefing block on the side of the boom. Don't remove it (you might want to add reef points to the mainsail), but don't use it for anything. Attach a small block to the shackle at the end of the boom. The outhaul, tied to the sail, goes through that and forward to the cleat. Or if you want more purchase, put a becket block on the end of the boom. In that case, the outhaul starts at the becket, goes through the clew of the sail, back to the sheave on the block, and forward to the cleat.

With a properly cut DS sail, when the sail is raised, the boom will clear your head (well, unless you are really tall). I believe that was one of the original design features of the DS. O'Day insisted that people should be able to tack without ducking.

[TIM WEBB]

The position of the downhaul cleat should be adjustable. You can loosen the cleat and let it drop down, raise the main as high as it will go, then pull the gooseneck down as far as possible. Set the cleat stop in the track a couple of inches below this point. Then you'll know that you're getting the highest boom location possible while still being able to fully tension the luff of the main, with the gooseneck cleated off against the stop with the downhaul ...

[talbot]

I wouldn't say "as far as possible." The downhaul tension affects the shape of the sail. In a brisk wind you want it pulled tight enough to put a wrinkle in the luff. The pressure of the wind stretches that wrinkle out for the sail to take its designed shape. When the wind is light, you slack off on the downhaul to give the sail a rounder shape. The downhaul has the same function as the cunningham on a fixed-boom boat. To get an idea of appropriate boom clearance, see the DS racing rules elsewhere on this forum. The racers have to keep their boom clearances (and just about every other measurement) within certain limits to be race-legal.

[danamags]

Thanks to all for the guidance. I've put a block on the end of the boom as suggested and run a line to a cleat further up the boom. I'm not really sure if the cleat I'm using is intended for the purpose, but for now it works. I guess when I got the boat from the previous owner, that part of the rigging just didn't make the journey...

As for the boom height - it turns out that I wasn't getting the mainsail fully lifted due to a pinch in the mast track, but as I got that opened up and could fully lift the main, the boom was at a perfect height. Gives you confidence in Fox's design to see how comfortable the cabin can be under sail.

(I'll spare the drama of the latter part of our cruise yesterday when both of the jib cars ripped out of the gunwales...)

DM

[Peterw11]

"(I'll spare the drama of the latter part of our cruise yesterday when both of the jib cars ripped out of the gunwales...)"

I think that happens to a lot of new owners of old boats. It happened to me on my first sail, as well.

Obviously, it's due to years of stress on the jib track screws, working themselves loose and eventually letting go at the wrong time. Quite a surprise, especially if your sailing prowess has yet to develop, or has decreased over the years due to inactivity.

An adequate fix is to merely move the tracks an inch or so horizontally, drill a couple of new holes, and reattach the jib tracks, which is what I did. It doesn't hurt if you add a couple of additional screws evenly distrbuted along the length of the track, just to add a bit more strength to the attachment points.

You should assume your first few sails will be an adventure, as you learn more about the boat, what works, what doesn't, and what needs attention.

[talbot]

This should probably move to a new topic, but as long as we're here...
The tracks are bolted through plywood that is glassed to the inner hull. It probably is rotten. Rudi at D&R Marine suggests moving the tracks to the top of the coaming (where they ended up on the DS III) where the force is shear rather than straight out.

My preference would be to install inspection ports aft of the tracks, such that you can get in there and through-bolt the tracks into their original locations, possibly with an additional backing plate. (I'm not sure how someone would actually remove the rotten wood, because it's encased in a pocket of fiberglass.)

If you do install inspection ports, I would put them far enough aft that you can also reach back to a point approximately across from the main swivel. Why? Because if you ever want to install oar locks, that's where they go, and the one set of inspection ports will let you service both the tracks and the oarlocks. And if you get the ones with the little pockets inside, you have a secure place for keys, wallet, cell phone, etc.

[GreenLake]

I'm also a member of the "jib track failure on maiden voyage" club, but on a DS1. In my case the jib track broke, and I used the occasion to upgrade to modern hardware.

Assuming that you want to keep your hardware, and that it wasn't damaged, it should be possible to "rejuvenate" the holes into which the screws were drilled.

Here are the steps that I would take

1. Overdrill the holes, but not so wide that they would be visible when covered by the track. Something like double the diameter should be possible.
2. If there's wood backing, check for firmness
3. If soft rot, try to scrape out - if you can't get to anything at least partially firm - stop
4. Soak the wood with laminating epoxy - that's thin, formulated to wet out well.
5. Repeat application to make sure as much as possible is soaked in.
6. Mix epoxy with glass fibers (shavings from a mat, clippings from a cloth), into something looking like a spit wad.
7. Insert in hole
8. Let cure, then drill, not too tight, because fiberglass does not have a lot of give.
9. Wax your screws (and underside of track)
10. Put some epoxy down the hole (preferably thickened, or a ready mixed gel)
11. Put some tape over the hole, so epoxy doesn't run out in front (nothing you can do about back, that's why gel would be better)
12. Mount your track. The epoxy will fill the space around the threads, providing a very firm grip. The wax will let you remove the screws after it has been cured.

These steps represent a combination of things I've used successfully together with some refinements I've learned here (the waxed screws).
By making the holes slightly larger and soaking the backing plywood with epoxy, the loads are distributed quite a bit wider than before. The "spitwad" and the additional epoxy coat will make a superior connection with the screw, to the point that I don't think through-bolting would improve.
However, if you have access to the back of your tracks, then I would simplify the procedure to

1. Drill to size of bolt
2. Seal any wood with thin epoxy
3. Wax bolt and track
4. Through-bolt with a very large washer on the inside

If there's no evidence of rot, simply a failure of the original screw holes in the backing, you can leave out many steps. Simply:

1. Coat the inside of the hole with gelled epoxy. For example, SystemThree's "gel magic" will wet out the wood well enough, but not sag
2. Wax screws and track
3. Mount.

The point of the wax is to prevent the track and screws or bolts from sticking to the epoxy. That way you can proceed without waiting for a final cure of the epoxy, and don't risk drilling into bare wood again - something that will undo the moisture sealing that you were trying to achieve with the epoxy. Last, but not least, you get a "custom fit" to your screw.

[TIM WEBB]

talbot:

Correct, but I'm talking strictly cruising here, with the goal being to have the gooseneck/boom as high as possible while still being able to fully tension, or not, the luff. The halyard and the downhaul can both be used for this, and the cunningham as well. With the setup I described, any combination of the three can be used ...

[TIM WEBB]

As to the jib tracks pulling out, mine did the same thing, and I just through-bolted them in a fixed location on the gunwales/coamings. I've found that with using barber inhauls, I don't really need forward/aft adjustment of the fairleads/cleats. I am considering moving the cleats to the top of the CB trunk tho, as there are already angled lands molded into it for this purpose.

But, here's what Roger Conrad did to fix his:

Access to starboard jib track backing plate (inside cuddy):




Behind starboard seat:




Fix on port backing plate:

[talbot]

All double-hull boats should come with a coupon for a digital camera. And maybe a coupon for a pair of inspection ports.