Daysailer II cuddy viewports, lightports or portholes?

[hectoretc]

Greetings all,
As I am continuing to get my refit plans ready for this fall/winter, I remember seeing a picture someplace of a DSII or III with little portholes or some kind of round little window in the sides of the cuddy. I've not been able to find that picture again, nor any product that would seem to work, so maybe now thinking it was another style of boat altogether. But before I give up I thought I'd toss it out here to ask if anyone is aware of a little round porthole small enough to fit on the side of a DSII cuddy? It's not a critical piece, I just thought it looked kinda nice on that picture and maybe give a little different look to the boat.
Thanks,

[jdoorly]

This is the only DS2 with a port that I've seen. Don't know where I got the pic though.



It should be easy enough to to cut a hole in the fiberglass (round or ellipticle), cut a larger square of plexiglass (I would prefer smoked/grey) for the interior, add sealant/gasket to the perimeter and screws in the corners and voila, just made your DS cooler!

[talbot]

A marina neighbor with a Santana 23 added regular inspection ports to his cabin top, but used the clear covers instead of the standard fiberglass. Seemed to work well. They are waterproof and readily available at any marine supply. Also, you can unscrew the covers if you want more ventilation.

[hectoretc]

Thanks talbot, 10-4 on the ventilation (am I allowed to say 10-4 here?)
I just spent about 45 minutes packed into the cuddy cutting an inspection port into the forward bulkhead so I could clear out 2-3 dozen pieces of 3 x 3 x 6" broken styrofoam blocks to eventually find the back of my newly inserted boweye.

I'm not claustrophobic (at least I wasn't before) but it was really hot, and really stuffy in there. Definitely a need for some cross ventilation in that little space.

I would suppose, taking it a bit further that with the covers removed, a simple screen plug could be inserted (or even permanently attached to the bottom) for night use...

Thanks again!

[hectoretc]

I forgot to add this to my previous posting.
While "down under" inside the cuddy cutting my hole for an inspection port in the forward bulkhead, I noticed the bulkhead itself was somewhat flimsy. Not too much tapping later, I realized the upper seal to the forward deck (bottom side of course) was completely broken loose from the bulkhead, and 3 tugs later (probably a mistake) the piece of fiberglass angle was completely out and sitting on the floor next to me. The sides and bottom of the bulkhead still appear to be well attached to the hull and cuddy floor.

So it was obviously intended, but is it needed that the forward bulkhead be sealed closed? As mentioned there a a could hundred + styrofoam blocks up there for floatation that can't really get out, but I'm assuming that fiberglass corner was there for a reason.

Not really looking forward to laying on my back in that cramped space for another hour trying to fiberglass the seal back over my head...

How about a couple gallons of good silicone caulking?
Thanks,

[ChrisB]

Silicone should be avoided. While it will provide a water seal, it will provide no structural strength whatsoever. The bulkheads is in place to provide strength to support the deck and give additional rigidity to the sides of the bow in the area where the bow hits waves in choppy waters. To not reattach the bulkhead would invite more troubles down the road. The good news is that fiberglass is very easy to work with and will provide a strong bond even if you do less than a "professional" job with the repair.

[GreenLake]

There are techniques for applying fiberglass overhead. One way would be to take a strip of wax paper about 1" wider and longer than the strip of laminate that you would like to apply to re-form the seal.

Lay up the laminate on the wax paper (even multiple layers), saturating each layer with epoxy, then squeegeeing out the excess. If using more than one layer of glass, make an inverse stairstep, by making each strip wider than the one underneath. (The uppermost layer will later be the one in contact with the repair location, and a stepping down the width of each layer avoids "hard" spots in the join).

Before the epoxy cures (or even gels), lift the whole strip, and paste it, wet side up, to form your seal. A stiff sponge or similar material is great to provide pressure to hold things in place until the epoxy cures. You probably want to tape the edges of the wax paper flush to the repair site as well. After the epoxy has stiffened up, you can pull off the wax paper.

If you have a sharp L bend, fill the inside of the corner with a thickened epoxy of a pre-formulated filleting agent, like SystemThree's EZ Fillet, to make a gentler curve before applying the fiberglass. Fiberglass does not
like sharp bends.

Ideally you would work this in sections, as manhandling anything over about 18" in length will likely prove very tricky, but it should be possible to apply shorter sections quite neatly.

[hectoretc]

Thanks for the ideas (I like the wax paper prefab plan...)
So is the priority here structure strength and not a waterproof seal?
Greenlake's suggestion of doing it in prefab sections really makes a lot of sense, but do I want start on one side and work across insuring a good (very good) seal between segments, or again is the primary interest here to get a very strong bond to the deck and bulkhead as opposed to between the segments, or are both equally important?

Thanks, Scott

[GreenLake]

I'm not familiar with the DSII, so I can't tell you whether an airtight seal is required in that location, but bulkheads do provide strength. For strength you would not need continuous tabs, but it should be easy to seal whatever gaps you may have left afterwards. A single layer of glass across any "holes" would do. (I would assume that if water could get into the bilge from there if the boat is on its side (capsized) it would be a bad idea.)

[talbot]

Oh, what a tale of woe. My forward bulkhead (1973) looked liike it had been attached with masking tape. I injected MarineTex epoxy behind the sagging tape and pressed it into place with a strip of wood jammed against the cabin floor with some cut-to-length scraps of 1x2. I considered reaching around through the inspection port (the one you just cut) and injecting 3M 2400 polyurethane into the seam between bulkhead and deck. Your story has convinced me to proceed.

[GreenLake]

MarineTex is great stuff, but it's not reinforced. It has its uses, but for this kind of application, with a few glass tabs you'd be sure you got the necessary strength.

Although, from everything I read about it, 3M 5200 should be a possible alternative. It's used for similar purposes, like bonding hull to deck with a watertight seal that you will need to cut, before it comes apart.

If you have glued the bulkhead to the deck and just want to waterproof it, then something like Life Calk might fit the bill.

[talbot]

Oops. 3M 5200 was what I meant.

[GreenLake]

Makes more sense. If there's no "lip" where the bulkhead meets the deck, you would have a T configuration. "Gluing" that, whether with epoxy or #M 5200 would seem to be marginal, because of the way the narrow edge of the bulkhead would not seem to offer a lot of are for a join.

That's the reason I would be more comfortable with tabbing the bulkead using an L angle of fiberglass, and then using the caulk only to seal any remaining gaps. The tabbing should be sufficient to translate any forces between deck and bulkhead.

[talbot]

Not a lip; a seam. It appears that O'Day in 1973 put in the bulkhead by positioning the fibreglass, then laying up mat in an L to fasten the bulkhead to the deck and hull. It has a smooth convex surface from the cuddy side, and a sharply concave (V-shaped) seam on the forepeak side. In other words, the bulkhead is only bonded on its aft surface. I reached in and injected 5200 into the V. Now the bulkhead is connected to the deck and hull with mat and resin on the aft side, and with polyurethane on the forward side.

Ron Fish at the Oregon Sailing Center told me loose forward bulkheads in small boats are not unusual, mainly because workers don't properly clean the surfaces before laying up the mat. He described it as "the worst job in the factory." Bulkheads are typically put in after the deck is on. Tight space, poor light, no ventilation, and toxic fumes--all the incentives are for working as fast as possible and getting the hell out of there.

[GreenLake]

Thanks for the description. That's why I like epoxy - no styrene fumes!

If the factory installed tabs (the L shapes) are still attached to the bulkhead, but have pulled free from the deck, then gluing them back to the deck (after cleaning!) would be enough. And I could imagine that, given the area involved and the nature of the load, a strongly adhesive caulk like 3M 5200 would be enough. I don't think there's really a need to have tabs on both sides of the bulkhead.