Centerboard Question

[EHarrison]

Hello, My name is ethan. My sister and I (she's 11 and I'm 15) are considering buying a daysailer II. We took the boat out last weekend left it on a mooring for a few hours and the bilge took on 4 inches of water. I then (to find the leak) filled it with water on the trailer and it was leaking through the centerboard. not that strongly, just dripping consistently. My guess is that it would intensify when it got in the water. I tightened the centerboard bolt, as I saw on a forum that it could be the problem but it is still leaking.
Anyway two questions.... Is this an easy fix (because i am not a handyman)
and should I buy the boat or is this a major drawback. as for your book, a great idea might be to put it on clickbank, lot's of ebooks, how to's, training programs. My basketball trainers use it for there programs with great success. Anyway sorry to get off topic about my boat (I hope I didn't violate any code or something) any advice would be Highly appreciated.
Thanks and God Bless,
Ethan Harrison

[GreenLake]

Hi Ethan, I can't give you a definite answer on a DSII centerboard (because I sail a DS1) but this is definitely the right place to get very detailed help.

I moved your post into its own thread, so it will be more visible.

Let's see what the DSII experts have to contribute.

In the meantime you could run this search (google or bing):

site:daysailer.org centerboard

and you might find some relevant discussion to read up on.

[TIM WEBB]

Ethan, were there a lot of wind/waves during the time you were keeping the boat on the mooring? And was the centerboard up or down?

The DS2 has a reputation for taking on water into the bilge from the point where the centerboard uphaul comes into the cuddy cabin, and there are easy ways to fix the problem.

This should definitely not deter your sister and you from considering buying the boat - if you love everything else about her, then go for it!

Hey Roger, any chance of taking Ethan's advice, and publishing your book on clickbank?

[EHarrison]

Thank you for replying. The centerboard was up, there was not a lot of wind or waves. In terms of the up haul line, that sounds about right, it was leaking on the forward side (towards the cuddy cabin) of the centerboard. I thought it may be the gel coat had broken open. Anyway I don't even know what really my options are, my first thought would be to take the centerboard off and see what is going on. Any suggestions? And would 700 be a good price for this boat? The boat itself is in good condition. The sails are basically new. Just the leak is the problem...I want to be able to keep it out on a mooring and still have a dry boat.
Thanks Again

[Alan]

http://www.bobhunkins.com/mt-archives/DS2CBTLK_100.pdf

The link above is to a method of fixing the leak from the centerboard trunk into the bilge. A couple of people here have used it, with early reports of success. It's also discussed in the DSII book.

You probably want to determine whether you have an early or late centerboard pivot. Early boats (1970s or thereabouts), use a pivot bolt. the DSII book discusses this design.

Later DSIIs, like my 1980, use a modified pivot. The through-bolt was replaced by a pivot pin, which is supported by two wedges that are installed from under the hull and secured by stainless steel plates. The pivot pin doesn't penetrate the hull, so that leak point is eliminated. You can find pictures of this design in my gallery.

The early design can leak into the bilge around the pivot bolt. The later design doesn't have this leak point, but water could leak past the screws that secure the wedge retaining plates.

When you filled the boat with water, did you fill the bilge or the cockpit? If you filled the cockpit (including the cuddy), water could have leaked through the uphaul line fitting into the centerboard cavity, even if there wasn't any problem.

If you filled the bilge, and you have the early-design pivot bolt, water may have leaked past the pivot bolt into the centerboard trunk, and would have dripped out from there.

Another leak point into the bilge is at the two inspection ports in the cockpit floor, just aft of the cuddy bulkhead. If you got water in the cockpit while sailing, it could have seeped past the threads and into the bilge.

[adam aunins]

I would slowly fill the bilge while someone else keeps an eye out for leaks. If it starts to drip before the water height has gotten up to the Centerboard bolt then it is going through the hull some how. Keeping an eye on the water height / CB bolt may be tough. Might need an inspection mirror or some other contraption to make it easier. An other thing to try would be to get under the trailer ( secure trailer very well before hand) and see if you can get a look into the CB trunk and see where the water is coming from.

If the sails are like new then I would say that's a fair price.

[jdoorly]

My DS2 had a leak in another place: The bilge drain in the transom. Water was coming in there even though the drain plug was screwed in. I had fixed several of the common causes of leaks but the bilge didn't dry out until I removed and re-bedded the drain plug frame with 5200.

I'd say DS's range from $600 to $3500 (new racing sails and winning record, new 4hp motor, new trailer, new paint)! Mine was $600 for a boat in remarkably good shape but dull paint, old sails, no motor and old but galvanized trailer.

[hectoretc]

I then (to find the leak) filled it with water on the trailer and it was leaking through the centerboard. not that strongly, just dripping consistently. My guess is that it would intensify when it got in the water. I tightened the centerboard bolt, as I saw on a forum that it could be the problem but it is still leaking.

Hi Ethan,
You said in your post that you filled your boat with water while on the trailer, so this might not apply for you, but picking up on Jay's comment about the bilge drain, when I first brought my very used (and abused) boat home, I was amazed how heavy the front end of the boat was. It took two of us to lift it onto the hitch ball to bring it home. While parked on level ground I found the trailer was set up wrong so the bow was lower than the stern. When I pulled into our driveway that has a mild uphill angle, water started coming out at the bilge plug (which was still in). So it obviously leaked. When I pulled the plug, water poured out. I would just suggest you insure your boat is tipped up enough so the bilge water "can" get to the plug to see of yours leaks there as well.
Good Luck! Scott

[talbot]

Don't despair. $700 is an OK price, in my opinion. I paid $900 for my boat 5 years ago, and it sounds like it was in worse shape than yours. I don' t think it would have floated overnight at a moorage. But I replaced the centerboard bolt and washers, along with the transom drain and that hole into the cabin from the CB trunk, and the boat has been dry since. My boat is wet sailed (it floats at a dock for 6 months each year), and it has taken on water from condensation. But if I keep the bilge aired out, it has been dust-dry the last two seasons.

[EHarrison]

Thanks to all of you who replied..."talbot," scott, jdoorly, adam, alan, tim, "greenlake"

Saturday is my 15th birthday so my family and I are going to spend the day figuring out the centerboard issue. I would really like to keep the boat, but want to make a smart decision. Keep the ideas coming. If I'm really stumped, I may post a question late Saturday morning. At any rate, if we can't fix it I'll probably choose to return the boat to its owner on Sunday.

To answer a few of the questions...
Scott, we used a level to make sure the boat was sitting correctly, then we tilted the stern downward to make sure all the water drained out. You are right about it leaking at the transom plug but I don't think it was enough to take on four inches. Plus, when I filled the bilge it was leaking through the centerboard area...with the centerboard up. I'm assuming if water could come out then it was also leaking in while afloat.
Thanks for confirming the price point. Just don't want to get in over my head.

JDoorly, we replaced the screw in plug but it is still dripping a little...seems like that will be an easy fix. I'd like to think that would take care of it but what about the water coming through at the centerboard opening?

Adam, I'm going to refill and try your suggestion first thing Saturday. Thanks, I think it is a fair price too as long as this leak isn't a big problem.

Alan,
I filled the bilge, not the cockpit. Mine's a '74 so I think I have the through-bolt. Thank you for the link to bobhunkins.

Tim, thanks for the encouragement. Sort of good to know that this is not a problem unique to this boat and so far no one has said it might require a fiberglass repair which is one thing that worried me...even though I don't see any sign of damage.

Greenlake, thanks for taking my amateur posting and making it more visible. I've heard some great ideas. I passed on a DS1 when I found this boat and have been kicking myself ever since the water problem came up. I didn't go see the ds1 but I think it was in great shape...a Navy guy owned her. So, before I take the leap, do you think the ds1 is superior and, if so, in what way. I thought the ds2 would be better for my sister and I because we could probably sleep in the cuddy, it has a self-bailer, and I can't remember the other. Anyway, I'd still like to get your opinion.

Thanks to all,
Ethan

[talbot]

You can sleep in the DSII cuddy, but it's about the size of a small backpacking tent, with less ventilation. Plus, when you go sail camping, the cuddy is full of gear, which you have to move out of the way. It is no easier (and probably less comfortable) than sleeping in a tent on the shore.

The DSII may be somewhat more seaworthy, particularly if you add a hatch to the cabin. The new Day Sailers 1's (now made by Cape Cod Shipbuilding) have the DSII-style cabin with sealing hatch and self-bailing cockpit. I like the DS II for the security and storage, and I don't race.

The DSII's are generally heavier and slower than the DS I's, and most of the serious racers use older DS I's. I got my first DS II from a racer who wanted to switch to DS I because he thought it would be faster. I'm pretty sure a well-maintained old DS I would be a more competitive boat.

[jeadstx]

I'm late to this discussion. My 76 DS2 leaks in two areas, the opening at the front of the CB trunk and the cockpit inspection ports. The previous owner of my boat sealed my CB bolt with some kind of goop so I have no leaks there. The only time my stern bilge plugs have leaked was not putting them in prior to launching, Haven't forgotten that since.

The price you mentioned seems fair to me. Of course prices vary in different parts of the country. I paid $1200 for my boat 6 years ago. It needed a few things to be fixed.

As for a comparison between the DS1's and DS2's, I can say that in my opinion the DS1's are faster. That being said, the DS2's are very capable boats. I sailed 200 miles in mine up the Texas coast last summer (I will be sailing it again in June) and I know there are a couple DS2's planning to sail the Florida 120 in May.

John

[GreenLake]

Ethan, these boats are all eminently "repairable". Even fiberglass work is something you can do yourself unless you truly have two left thumbs.

It helps to have access to other people (for example in turning over a boat) and perhaps in getting through some repairs where a second head (or set of eyes) will help.

From what the DSII sailors are telling you, it doesn't seem that the boat you are considering has some crippling flaw, but more likely, is suffering from a standard weakness of the DSII design, for which there are (by now) standard ways to fix it.

Considering the season's rapid approach I would tend to encourage you to not miss a summer on the water waiting for a "perfect" boat.

If you don't go overboard in adding to your boat, you should also be able to sell it again in a year or two, if your tastes have changed and not lose too much by that. (Might even gain a bit, if the boat looks and sails better than when you bought it).

I sail a DS1, but that choice was more of an accident at the time. It happened to be available at a decent price. I haven't seen a DSII in our area at all, whether on the water or for sale. There you have it. I don't think that the differences are so absolutely compelling that you would want to wait. I think the two boats are similar enough in how they sail that you could call the design differences just different compromises.

[brucybaby]

Ethan, welcome aboard. It sounds like a fair deal on the DS2. Like was said before, for $700, as long as it's seaworthy you can't loose too much, just don't go overboard on upgrades. The experience you'll gain will be priceless. You sound like an intelligent young man, if you provide the seller with an informed estimate of things that need to be done and costs, and try to not look too excited, he may be inclined to haggle a bit, just sayin'. ("Anyone who really wants to sell something will sell it for a little less if you ask nicely"- my mom)
I'm not sure what you're into, pleasure sailing, competitive racing or like me 'PLacing' (pleasure racing) with a little mixed fleet in my area. There are a heck of a lot of variables in sailboat racing. I would surmise that any speed differences between the 1's and the 2's can probably be made up with good technique in most cases.

BTW, I paid $400 for my O'Day Widgeon. Buffed out the hull, fixed a small crack in the hull bottom and the infamous O'Day centerboard bolt hole leak problem, painted the trailer with high gloss Rustolium and sold her three years later for $650. Overall probably a break even on the $$$, but the memories and great times I had, along with learning that little boat inside and out gave me a priceless amount of confidence and pleasure in sailing.

Have fun... I wish I would have started sailing at 15 instead of 51!

[hectoretc]

Have fun... I wish I would have started sailing at 15 instead of 51!

ditto that plus 7