Mounting Cam cleats on CB trunk, for Jib sheets?

[Guest]

Have a 1981 DSII and find that jib sheets run to cam cleats on slider; each side. Very difficult to set the jib when single handing.
I can see that there are two perfect places for mounting cam cleats on CBd trunk. Molded just at the right angle.
PROBLEM: There's no way to get behind that spot to install washers and nuts.
Does anybody know how to mount the cleats? By any chance have they molded a chunk of metal under the CB housing, to provide strong surface to drill, tap, and fasten a bolt?

Bob Cramer (RJCramer10-at-aol.com)

[Guest]

I have the same problem and want to do the same thing you are talking about. I have been told that the best way to do this is to install inspection ports on the inside of the cockpit to gain access and install the cleats. You run the jib sheets through cam cleats on sliders. Don't move those. Then run the jib sheet back to new cleat.

Dan Steill (d.steill-at-gte.net)

[Guest]

I noticed the same molded places on my 1979 DS II, they were in fact used to mount the camcleats for the jibsheets on the early DS IIs, the O'Day Widgeon that I owned before buying my DS II had the jibsheets rigged this way and it did work better for singlehanding, although it does present a potential tripping hazard when moving forward to moor the boat or lower the sails.
However, I seriously doubt that O'Day molded in any metal backing plate under those pads once they switched to the combined fairlead/camcleat on a track on the inside of the cockpit coamings. The older DS II had a simple block on a slider on that track. There is a hollow space between the cockpit molding over the centerboard trunk and the actual centerboard trunk, so if a slot could be carefully cut in the side of the trunk "cap" a tapped metal plate might be able to be slipped in, and the slot glassed over.
Perhaps the best idea is to contact Rudy Nickerson at D&R Marine (508-644-3001) he may have some insight into this question based on his O'Day experience. Keep us all posted if you do talk to Rudy!
In the meantime, I found that if I bent the mounting plate for the camcleats slightly aft, I can now cleat the jibsheets easier when singlehanding. The problem with that idea is that it is slightly harder to release the sheet when tacking. The whole rig would be better if the cleat was on the forward side of the mounting plate, rather than the aft side, but there does not seem to be a way to make this change.
The Day Sailer III improved on the jibsheet problem by mounting the tracks on an angled spot at the top edge of the coamings, unfortunately this is not practical to do on the Day Sailer II.

Rod Johnson (rjohnson24-at-juno.com)

[Guest]

Here is what I did, I mounted a cleat on the top of the center board housing just in front of the main sheet tackleblock mount. The fiberglass is about 3/8" thick there. I tapped the holes and used 1/4-20 philips head screws. Most if not all of the force is sideways, not up, and it appears to be quite strong. I will try it out this weekend. If it doesn't work as expected, the holes are small and will patch easily when I repair and paint it this winter.

I have pictures of the installation if anyone wants to see it.

Dan Steill

Dan Steill (d.steill-at-gte.net)

[Guest]

I'm interested in how your idea worked. Strong enough? One cleat for either jib sheet? Am curious as to how that works. I'm still working on some way to use those two perfectly molded sites on top of the centerboard for cam cleats. I'd appreciate whatever you can share, including picture.
Thanks.
Bob Cramer

Bob Cramer (RJCramer10-at-aol.com)

[Guest]

In my opinion, "those two perfectly molded sites on top of the centerboard for cam cleats" are just too far forward for me. I wanted the cleat to be further
back by the main sheet where I sit most of the time. I just hated trying to get to them when sailing alone. When I sail with someone else, I instruct him on how to handle the jib sheets and use the standard setup. Since 99% of the time, you only use one jib sheet at a time, I saw no reason to install two cleats. I still run the sheets through the standard mechanism but I do not use the jam, just through the black eye and back to the cleat.

As for strength, I drilled and tapped the holes for 1/4-20 bolts. The fiberglass there appears to be about 3/8' thick so I had plenty of material to set the threads in. After mounting the cleat, I tied a
rope to it and hung myself off the floor (I weight 240 lbs) and then checked the bolts and they were tight. Now what it will do when that jib really shakes, I do not know. But, much to me disappointment, the weather here in Indiana has changed and winter is here so I may not find out until next spring (argggggggggggg!)So the jury on this one is still out. If it doesn't work, all I will have to do is fill two small holes. Or, I might just install and inspection port there on
the side and put in a backing plate.

I wish I could try it out, but it is just too darn cold for me!



Dan Steill (d.steill-at-gte.net)

[Guest]

I called Rudy at D&R and got the following advice:
They did not provide a metal plate behind those molded sited on top of the CB trunk, BUT it IS possible to simple drill and tap threads into the fiberglass. Says the fiberglass is strong enough to take threads. If that should pull out (and it won't) you could drill and then set in plastic expansion plugs as sold in hardware store. Also; there is not enough room between the molded cockpit shell and actual hull/CBslot to be able to cut access port and reach behind.

Note To Dan Steil: Thanks again for the suggestion and photos, BUT I have one word of caution re your cleat...
Is really not good idea to use "horn cleat" for jib sheet. When a wind gust hits you'll want to let go of the jib and unhitching from the horn cleat is too slow. Common sailing practice says to always use quick release cam cleat for any control line.

BobC.

Bob Cramer (RJCramer10-at-aol.com)

[Guest]

You are correct about the horned cleat taking time to undue if you do a full hitch. If you do a friction hitch, all you have to do is flap the rope and the friction hitch comes undone quickly. Or, at least it did on sister's boat!

I wanted to do it cheaply first to see if it would work. To do the clam cleat, it would require two, one for each side because of the angle. But, after reading your post, I will have to reconsider for sure!

Dan Steill (d.steill-at-gte.net)

[Guest]

I had my cam cleats mounted on the center top of the centerboard trunk. On my third sailing of the boat, one pulled loose. Upon inspection, it was noted that the original installation appeared to be a metal mollie bolt which had rusted and finally failed. The type you use in sheetrock walls. I purchased four new mollies installed and used sealant bottom of cam cleat before installing. It works great, cost about $1.00 and took ten minutes !!!

jack (jacmar007-at-prodigy.net)

[Guest]

I decided I wanted to cleat my jib sheets to the center board trunk ahead of the main sheet cleat on my DS1. The method of mounting may apply to DS11 - I'm not sure.

I drilled and tapped a piece of 1/4" aluminum bar that is long enough to drill and tap bolts for one Harken cam cleat facing as if the sheet was coming straight from the bow and two 5/16" countersunk mounting holes, 1 ahead and 1 behind the cleat. This orientation of the single cleat holds the sheet from either tack. I drilled and tapped corresponding holes in the fiberglass top of the centerboard truck for 5/16-18 threads. I bedded this plate with filled epoxy puddy and built up puddy fillets where the plate was a little wider than the center board trunk. I think I could pull the trunk out of the hull with this connection! Hope it helps.

Calvin

Calvin Trotter (calvin.g.trotter-at-saint-gobain.com)

[Guest]

i just had a freind make up a one foot lone stainless steel saddle that caps the DB ttrunk and goes down the side bu 2 inches. It is fastened to the trunk by putting 2 1/4 inch bolts though from side to side though holes drilled in the metal and the glass trunk. The 2 harken swivel camcleats mount on top of this piece and they are helf by bolts that have nuts on the underside of the metal piece in the resulting 1/4 inch gap. The rig is placed behind the tow angled areas. It is a dream to trim the jib singlehanded or by the crew.....although difficult if the crew is hiking out.

Harris (hg-at-myhst.com)

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback. I have yet to try the "tap directly into the fiberglass" approach recommended by Rudy. BUT it is spring again and I'm ready to try. When I get other chores done.... Meanwhile, I'll keep using those awkward cams at the side. I'll try your method if Rudy approach fails.

Bob Cramer (RJCramer-at-optonline.net)

[Guest]

Just to update for anyone following this thread; I've installed the two cleats, using the (tap directly into the fiberglass on top of CB trunk) approach suggested by Rudy, and it has worked fine. Is MUCH easier to set those sheets. When singlehanding I like to sit foreward of the main sheet, so the position is ideal. For now, the boat is back under a layer of snow and I can only plan for next summer.... Find something else to improve.

Bob Cramer (RJCramer-at-optonline.net)