CB uphaul line has frayed

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CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:09 pm

I will be selling my 1974 DS II soon, so am looking for an easy way to deal with the uphaul line. It is a 3-ply, and one of the strands has frayed through b/c the rubber plug through which it runs had come out without my noticing it and the rope was cut by the sharp fiberglass top edge of the exit hole.

I am not interested in trying to careen the boat and remove the CB, which I imagine might be the correct way to proceed, so am looking for an easier repair that would at least strengthen it in some way to make it dependably serviceable. Is there a way?
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:19 pm

For instance: cut a circular hole in the CB trunk to fish out uphaul line, then whip or shrink it, or something line that? I have successully patched such holes before using hardware cloth as a temporarily wired backing.
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Don't dismiss careening...

Postby GreenLake » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:31 pm

Careening a DS takes less time than cutting and patching an access hole, in my view, and I'm no slouch with fiberglass myself.

If your boat is on land, the easiest way is to get two (or three) friends. "Launch" the boat onto a carpet, and tip it either on its side, or all the way upside down (onto some support that the cuddy deck doesn't get to take the load). With discussing the procedure and the setup takes probably half an hour, more if you have a beer afterward. Either position should let you do your work. That work might be quick enough for your buddies to stay around so that they can help you reverse the procedure. (We found that two strong guys and a teenager for spotting, moving supports etc. are enough to control the DS through that maneuver, but extra hands will help).

Cutting a hole will always leave a trace, unless you do a lot of work fairing and finishing - and that really costs time.
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby jdoorly » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:53 pm

I have careened my DS2 6 or 7 times alone. I just tie a rope around the mast base or CB trunk, through the cockpit and around a tree. Then just drive the trailer in the opposite direction. I haven't been able to pull the boat over (careen) by pulling on a halyard so I use a come-along attached to a convenient swing set or what-have-you.

I understand you want a quick fix but I can't suggest anything other than replacing the rope :roll:

Here is 1 of 3(?) 'standard' DS2 CB control line layouts (my dowhaul exits midway on the top of the trunk), hope it helps...

1419
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:08 pm

Yes, gabond, I suspect you are referring to the downhaul, not the uphaul?

My DH line is also showing signs of wear, but just normal "fuzziness", no really damaged areas. The CB trunk grommet is still intact and smooth. With boat on trailer and CB up, I can just see the end of the DH line, where it's buried in the CB. Since CB removal is not an option for my boat (long story), I've often wondered if I could replace the DH line if/when it becomes necessary, and I think I could ... ? Another project for another day ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:27 pm

I guess it is the downhaul, thanks. One continuous line...

I am still thinking of using a door drill bit and making a hole in line with the exit hole. But it won't happen soon, as it is pretty cold out there. I suppose I could just sell it and say "good luck with that!"

Appreciate the advice and comments.
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:04 am

Still mulling this over...

Now thinking of putting in a 4" port to avoid all the hassle and the need to wait for warmer weather, but wondering where exactly I would put it (i.e., how high and how far back from the front of the cb trunk) and whether I would risk cutting anything else with a saber saw as I cut my circle. I read through Roger Conrad's detailed and excellent cb discussion but remain unsure, especially b/c I have no line going up to the cuddy bulkhead as everyone else seems to have and is represented in the diagram posted above.

Any thoughts on where exactly to locate an access port? TIA

Jerry
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby GreenLake » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:44 pm

Jerry, I obviously don't have a DSII, therefore my question. I know the DSII has a double hull. Is the CB trunk doubled as well? If yes, would that give issues for adding an inspection port?
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:05 pm

Don't know, don't know. Back to Roger...
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby jdoorly » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:19 pm

My DS2 is double skinned along the top half of the CB trunk, then then it becomes cockpit floor, then seat, then coaming, then deck.
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby jeadstx » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:27 pm

I've been looking at jdoorly's DS2 cutaway drawing and it looks to be fairly accurate. Only difference with my DS2 is the DH line going to the cuddy roof, mine doesn't. I am not sure that one inspection port would be able to access both line attachment points. I'm also not sure if there is enough room to put in a 4" inspection port where it is needed. If you did try to put in an inspection port, I would think that it would be better to have it above the waterline. It looks like an access opening might be able to be made on the top of the CB trunk, one inside the cuddy for the uphaul attachment, and one outside the cuddy for the downhaul attachment point. The opening would have to have a gasket to keep it watertight while closed for sailing. Openings on top of the trunk might also provide a way to fix a jammed CB, something common to the DS2.

As to the double hull question. In the cockpit the trunk may have a double thickness. Inside the bilge (from the pictures I've taken there), it does not appear to be double walled, but that area would be below the waterline.

My boat like Tim Webb's boat has some kind of goop on the centerboard bolt that has to be removed to access the CB bolt, if CB removal is needed.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:09 am

Sun was out today, so took off the cover to get a good pic. Attached is the current situation with the cb completely uphauled and cleated. The two intact strands of the downhaul are visible to the right of the cuddy face, with the 3-ply to the left and the broken strand hanging loose. The problem is that I can't pull the downhaul through the entry hole on the cb trunk because the broken strand on the inside jams. That face of that curved trunk inside the cuddy was where I considered placing a 4" port.

But doesn't the cb drop of its own if not cleated? Thought I saw that somewhere.
Attachments
IMG_2574_small.jpeg
IMG_2574_small.jpeg (33.08 KiB) Viewed 9881 times
Last edited by gabond on Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby gabond » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:17 pm

Aha! Now that the snow is gone and the ground not underwater, I was able to crawl under the boat. I now see that that one strand has broken at the insertion point into the cb, and just make out the end of the broken piece at the left side. This means that there is a free floating remnant between the bottom of the hull here and the exit hole on the cb trunk--unless actually two strands are broken, one at the exit hole and another underneath.

Roger says: "If the downhaul is parted where it inserts into the centerboard, this is good news in that you may not have to remove the centerboard to do this repair." I do not intend to repair this, thinnking what is easy for him may be a PITA for me, but have the following minimal procedure in mind:
  • try to remove the broken off remnant with needle-nose pliers or something similar (edit: nope, it is laid rope and one strand does precisely not move against the others)
  • cut back the broken strand on the outside of the cuddy wall and crimp or glue it to the two remaining strands
  • make sure that the result allows the cb to be lowered with the two remaining strands
  • hand the new owner Roger's document and point to the relevant page
Any thoughts about that?
Attachments
IMG_2575_small.jpeg
insertion point of downhaul
IMG_2575_small.jpeg (38.28 KiB) Viewed 9880 times
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Re: CB uphaul line has frayed

Postby TIM WEBB » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:45 pm

' Roger says: "If the downhaul is parted where it inserts into the centerboard, this is good news in that you may not have to remove the centerboard to do this repair." '

This statement intrigues me: by "parted", does Roger mean broken all the way, or frayed like yours? Reason I ask is that I am very interested in doing a CBDH line replacement if such can be accomplished w/o CB removal, for the same reason John mentioned: goop on the CB pivot bolt ...

My DH line arrangement ('79) is exactly like the illustration above, with the tackle attached to the cuddy lip. PITA for moving stuff into/out of the cuddy, but very efficient for making sure the CB stays down when you want it to ...

BTW, the DH line on The Red Witch is braided, not 3-strand, but I don't think it's double braid ... ?

I've decided to go ahead and order Roger's book, as there are some other things I want to accomplish on the boat that I know he covers in it. Sent him an e-mail request today, but haven't heard back yet ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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