Recommendations for an outboard

[CapeHazeSailor]

Hi, just got my first sailboat and as I am very new at this I was hoping someone here could provide a bit of guidance regarding what size outboard best suits these particular craft. I know the literature states 3-7 hp but what have you folks learned from experience? Obviously I don't expect to use it much other that getting the boat to open water. Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks. Tom

[K.C. Walker]

Welcome aboard!

I've got an old Johnson 4 hp and I feel like it's more than enough. There are no circumstances over the last five years that I have opened it up full throttle. Even if you were to have 7 hp the boat is not going to plane, so you're basically maxing out at displacement hull speed which is 5.5 mph. For me, I max out speed at about half throttle.

The lighter you can get the better. Mine weighs 27 pounds and I think the Honda 2 hp runs about the same. There are a number of people on this forum that used trolling motors and hopefully they'll chime in.

[CapeHazeSailor]

Thank you, I was thinking the lighter the better.

[GreenLake]

If I had the money, I would get a Torqeedo. They use a very light battery, and their smallest electric outboard approaches the performance of a gasoline 2-2 1/2HP. Not having the money, I'm making due with a 40# trolling motor (and two lead-acid 12V batteries - I keep them forward for better weight balance).

Trolling motor performance tends to be a bit marginal for a DS, but I'm personally happy with a motor that makes sailing more attractive as soon as there's any wind. Avoiding gas/oil pollution in the water and the near total silence are attractive as well.

I use the motor occasionally when docking, but with experience, I've learned to manage quite tricky looking situations under sail, perhaps assisted with a few strokes of a paddle. I do not use the motor to keep the head into the wind while setting or lowering sail - where I sail, that's just not something that I need. I do use the motor to make it from shore to the middle of the lake where the wind is. Most often, that's because I'd like to make it to a beer can race in good time for the start. For daysailing, I just "enjoy the process", even if it takes a bit longer. I do use the motor to transit bridges (with their wind shadow) and short sections of canal. When it's really busy, I wouldn't mind if I could go 1-2kts faster, but not enough to want to turn a sailboat into a motorboat.

I use two batteries, because when one dies, it does so without warning. That happens only once every few years, but it's nice to not be totally stuck. Most of the time, with two, I just get extended range. At a top speed of around 3kts, I get 40min per battery or 2 miles distance. (That might be pushing it in terms of keeping the discharge to less than 50%). They way things work, I could extend the range by going to the next lower setting. The time to discharge would increase more than the speed decreases, so the total range (in flat calm/no current) would be much greater (double?).

I do sail in areas with tidal currents and have been in situations where the wind dies. With a trolling motor, going against the current is a losing proposition, unless you know wind is going to come back soon and you are content to just hold your place. (Been there, done that). However, a better strategy is to try to get out of the fastest current, to better wait for wind to come back. (My usual technique is to take a nap - it's never failed).

Now, if you can't resist the lure of more power, there's a new outboard available that runs off cylinders of propane gas (the small model you can screw in the green cans directly into the engine). That would appeal because the motor becomes a single self-contained item, and there's no gasoline smell. If I felt I seriously needed a stronger motor, I might consider that option.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get across with all this is that the decision depends very much on what type of sailor you are (want to be) and how you like to use your boat (and on local conditions). I don't bring a motor every single time, and even if I bring a motor, I estimate I use it less than half of the time. I've only had one single time where I only used the motor, no sails at all, that was a moonrise cruise in flat calm. Electric was key for that one. Wouldn't have been half the fun with a noise maker

The longest stretch I ever paddled, because I forgot the motor and got stuck close to the dock, was perhaps 500'. (The DS does not paddle well, but to get the 75' out from the dock to the lake is doable - I often don't bother to rig the motor for that).

I don't like any weight in the back, so I keep the batteries forward and the motor too, until it's needed.

[jdoorly]

I use a Minn Kota Endura 55 trolling motor (55 pounds of thrust, I upgraded from a 36 pound thrust but didn't get much improvement). I have 2 100A batteries and use one until the voltage drops to 12 volts, then I change to the other and hopefully make it home before the second's voltage drops below 12 v. When I sail on the local lakes I use the motor to get clear of the (busy) ramp, and due to the variations in wind speed and direction on lakes I often motor-sail with the motor in a low or mid speed for several hours. It keeps the sails fuller and helps me navigate some tricky sections. When I sail in Long Island Sound there are 1/2 hour to 1 1/2 hour long channels to negotiate to gain access to open water. I use the max speed setting and get about 2.5 mph unless the wind or tide or both are against me in which case I feel lucky to make 1 mph. Of course I sail if I can but once or twice had to anchor to keep from losing ground. I am not very happy with the trolling motor's power and am keeping watch on Craig's list for a used 2 to 4 hp outboard that's light weight and affordable!!!

BTW, These outboards might fill the bill, if I could find a used one: http://www.ioutboardmotors.com/25hp-2-cycle.html

[talbot]

We use a little 12v 30-lb-thrust Minn Kota that a friend gave to us. I installed the battery box under the deck between the center board and mast. I agree that the motor is marginal. At the coast, we are very aware that it would not keep us from being taken over the bar if we got caught in an ebb tide with no wind. (In other words, we have to do what mariners have had to do for most of history--pay attention to tides and currents.)

Interesting to read in this thread that a 55-lb thrust motor (about 1/2 hp) was not a significant improvement. That's what I was thinking of. Naturally, everyone wants a Torqueedo. Actually, I would be happy to just have the $2,000 that th6 motor costs. Plus $600 for an extra battery. And $1,000 for the solar charger.

Your best bet for power at low cost is probably a used 2.5 hp gas engine.

[CapeHazeSailor]

Thanks guys, great info!

[Thomasjbrothersjr]

I have been reading any and every p.ost I could find on motor recommendations. I live in an area where if I bring my boat to the ocean I will be fighting currents, strong currents at both the mouth of the Merrimack River in Newburyport MA and the mmouth of the Hampton River in NH.

Of course the obvious benifits of the electric are not lost on me, but so are their short comings. Motors on both sides of the transom have their advantages. I bought a 1997 Mercury Mariner 2 stroke 5 HP long shaft.

It has a built in fuel tank. The long shaft, I believe will be a huge advantage, so much so that I spent months waiting for the right motor to present it's self.

[K.C. Walker]

I think that I agree with Thomas about the long shaft, which I also have. Theoretically, the transom height is perfect for a short shaft, but that's for a motorboat. With a sailboat that pitches and rolls a lot, it does help to have a long shaft to keep the prop in the water. If the motor was centered I think a short shaft would be fine.

[klb67]

Cape Haze - do you have pics of your boat? Ours are very close in number. I have a few pics of mine as found and at the car wash on the way home.

I haven't sailed my DSII yet - hopefully soon. The widow I got it from said her husband had a 5 HP motor that he decided was too heavy for the boat. She sold it to me with the Evinrude 2 HP they used, and I think that motor will work quite well, having used essentially the same motor on a loaded canoe. They sailed the boat on local lakes and Lake Erie. I can't speak to motor requirements/recommendations for Florida.

I should add that their 5 HP motor had a separate gas tank and seemed to be quite sizable, possibly a 4 stroke. That Mariner posted above is much more like my 2 HP evinrude with the built in gas tank.

[jeadstx]

My boat is the next number above Cape Haze's boat. That's about as close as it gets sail number wise.

When I bought my boat it came with a 2hp Evinrude, Model 1940. The previous owner said it pushed the boat well. The little motor ran good when I got it, but gas with ethenol in it has messed it up and it needs a total overhaul. Since the motor is over 70 years old, parts are hard to come by. I have been using oars as auxillary power for a while, but have been planning to get a new outboard. The DS2 rows suprisingly well with the CB down just a bit. The motor I have been looking at getting is the 2.5 hp Lehr propane motor. It weighs about 39 lbs. according to the specs. I thought about the 5 hp model, but the extra weight I felt was a factor. The one draw back on the 2.5 hp model is that it does not come with an extended shaft. I plan to use a motor mount from Duckworks http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/mo ... /index.htm that can be removed when I race the boat and don't want a motor hanging off the stern.

Looking into the Lehr motors it says that a 1 lb. propane bottle is as efficient as 1 gal. of gasoline. The motors can either use the 1 lb. bottles screwed into the head of the motor or you can use a hose attached to external propane tank. Propane is also a little cheaper than gas, although maybe not as readily available in some places. The propane also doesn't polute as much and doesn't have the smell of gasoline. On long sails I carry some propane bottle for my camp stove anyhow, figure I might as well carry a few extras for a motor, they don't take up much room.

John

[GreenLake]

The Lehr is the motor I was musing about in my post. A nice balance in features.

The main rationale for putting up with trolling motors (besides noise) is the cost. Motor and two batteries cost me $300 new (at the time) and batteries have tended to last about 7 years on average. Add a charger for $120. Maintenance is topping off the battery charge every month or so in the winter, and hooking up the charger after every motor use during the season. I've replaced the propeller, once, for a three-bladed one.

The limited power and range are acceptable, especially since I don't want to be tempted into motoring, when I could be sailing instead. I get about 3kt top speed (measured not by GPS, but by more traditional methods), which means that if any wind comes up, it doesn't have to be very strong to allow me to sail faster. That prevents me from going into a rut the minute the motor is engaged. I still watch for wind, and am quick to shift back to sailing.

The reason there's no overwhelming difference between a 36# and a 55# motor could be from propeller design issues. Trolling motors are designed for low-speed operation. If you go to fast, you could outrun the propeller. I think something like that may be happening. Now, Kipawa make a three bladed propeller that they claim is better adjusted to using a trolling motor like an outboard. They are not expensive, so I got one to try it out. My conclusion is that they are not worse, but I don't see a day and night difference.

There's a company, ElectricPaddle, (http://www.electricpaddle.com) that makes electric propulsion for kayaks. Their system is not strong enough for a DS, but their design is intriguing. Their propeller looks more like an aircraft propeller, which they claim has some performance benefits (in addition to stowing very well).

I called them up once and spoke to the owner at length. He recommended to do an "electric conversion" for a boat like the DS. (http://www.electricpaddle.com/downloads ... ersion.pdf). This is an intriguing concept that involves re-purposing the drive train of a used gasoline outboard. The write-up is detailed. Might be an interesting project for those among the DS owners who have strong metal working skills (You know who you are). My own skills run more to wood and fiberglass.

The result would be something that should be able to move the DS at something closer to the speed you'd get with a gasoline outboard, while still getting all the benefits of low cost, utter quiet, and lack of gasoline smell.

[CapeHazeSailor]

Thanks to all for your input. I'll let you know what I end up going with, as with everything else it's a balancing act. Power vs. weight, etc.
Tom

[ShermanWalton]

We use a little 12v 30-lb-thrust Minn Kota that a friend gave to us. I installed the battery box under the deck between the center board and mast. I agree that the motor is marginal. At the coast, we are very aware that it would not keep us from being taken over the bar if we got caught in an ebb tide with no wind. (In other words, we have to do what mariners have had to do for most of history--pay attention to tides and currents.)

Interesting to read in this thread that a 55-lb thrust motor (about 1/2 hp) was not a significant improvement. That's what I was thinking of. Naturally, everyone wants a Torqueedo. Actually, I would be happy to just have the $2,000 that th6 motor costs. Plus $600 for an extra battery. And $1,000 for the solar panels.

Your best bet for power at low cost is probably a used 2.5 hp gas engine.

Nice recommendations.. I don't have enough money but I would still love to raise power a bit.. Thinking of following your advice:)

[kokko]

THis topic pops up periodically, so I will again weigh in with my 2hp Honda 4-stroke. Plenty of power for Truelove, and weighs only 27lbs. WIth an electric, you are carrying additional bettery weight.