water in hull

[vfranke]

I've got a '73 DS II taking on water into the hull. I have found a hairline crack 1/2' long (at the aft edge on the center of the hull where the trunk begins to turn up and into the hull). There is some kind of goop already on there, from what looks like a previous "event". The white goop seems to be holding, but it is the black "?" looking crack angled towards 10 o'clock that is letting in/out water. When I dump water into the hull, it lets out water, a drop at a time. The boat is new to us, as off last year, and it always took on a little water inside, but nothing major.. This year, after our first 4 hour sail there was a significant amount... taking minutes to drain out of the rear port. Seems like I have more of a leak somewhere than this hairline crack...?.. There was not enough water on the deck that could have seeped through the deck inspection ports.

DS II Hull Crack.jpg (119.19 KiB) Viewed 11680 times

A local shop recommended I dry it out and cover the crack with 3M 550 ( Polyurethane Adhesive Sealant). Do you all agree? I could

He also recommended (incase the gaskets are leaking on the CB bolt) I use the same stuff to re-lube the inside of the bolt that holds the centerboard to the boat... by loosening the nut, pulling the gaskets away from the hull and squirting the sealant around the bolt on the inside of the gasket and then replacing.

Any thoughts? I am new to boat repair, so appreciate any feedback.

I'm also debating puting in an inspection port just inside the cuddly to get a better look and access. Good or bad idea. Where is the best spot? Seems like a central location between CB and Mast foot, so I can access both if need be.... 6" or 7" any structural concerns?

Thanks,
Vince

[GreenLake]

I personally would not use sealant on a hull crack. If this were my boat I would dig out the crack and, if the damage wasn't structural, would use epoxy and glass to fill it; or, alternatively, I'd use 3M high strength marine filler (the high strength filler is polyester resin reinforced with chopped glass fibers).

If moving the CB from side to side with some force does open the crack, or makes it flex in other ways, the damage is structural. In that case, the way to fix it would be to grind a very shallow V along the crack and rebuild the laminate in there with epoxy and fiberglass. (It sounds more scary than it is, and nothing you can't do yourself - you can check older posts here for details and then come back with questions).

And, yes, immersed for four hours, even a small opening can add up to a lot of water.

I have a DS1 where the CB trunk (and gasket) is exposed, even a small drip there also adds up, so be sure to check for leaks there. Hopefully someone with a DSII will come by here and be able to give you more detailed suggestion on how to check for and fix those kinds of leaks.

[K.C. Walker]

+1 for what Green Lake said. Fiberglas and resin are the fix that you want to use on the cracks, and it's not that bad.

[Alan]

Another common source of leaks on the DSII is the hole where the uphaul line passes from the front of the centerboard trunk into the cuddy. There's a simple fix for this, using a 1/2-inch threaded pipe nipple, that's been well covered in other threads.

I'm blaming that problem for the six inches or so of water that collected in the bilge on our recent Tahoe trip (I ran out of time and wasn't able to install the fix before we left).

We started with a perfectly dry boat. After the first time out, there was water in the bilge all the way back to the inspection ports.

We pumped most of the water out. The boat sat in a marina slip all night, and the next morning there was no additional water in the boat.

After about an hour on choppy water, the bilge again had water in it all the way back to the inspection ports.

After sitting on the trailer since Friday, the boat still has almost as much water in the bilge as when we left Tahoe. There's no sign of it running out anywhere.

All of this tells me that water splashing up into my boat's centerboard trunk is the source of the water in the bilge.

So, I would recommend installing the pipe nipple fix, in addition to whatever crack repairs you do.

[jeadstx]

Yes, water will come in from the front of the CB trunk from where the uphaul line enters the trunk. I have water squirt thru there and hit the mast support. I had this problem on the recent Tx200, but none (or very little) of the water entered the bilge. With the boat heavily loaded with supplies for 5 days of sailing, bailing of the cockpit was a constant problem. My crew was concerned about it, but I explained it was a DS2 thing. Very little water came in when the boat was moving slow, but more came in as the boat picked up speed. Most of the water drained into the cockpit, some stayed in the cuddy cabin.

John

[Alan]

John,

Have you installed the pipe nipple in the uphaul line hole?

I found a few drops of water that I couldn't account for on stuff in the cuddy, so maybe it came in through the uphaul line hole.

[vfranke]

Thanks for the insight! I really appreciate having a place to go, especially starting out where I am with boat maintenance and repairs. I've got things drying out and will hopefully do the repairs tomorrow... does not seem structural!
I'll keep the UH in mind, but first off plan to seal the crack and "repack" the gasket (with sealant) on the bolt connecting the CB to the trunk....
thanks again,
Vince

[jeadstx]

Alan; I haven't done anything to the uphaul hole yet. The method you mention will slow the amount of water coming in, but as long as there is an opening, I think some will continue to enter thru there. On the 2012 Tx200 I stuffed some paper from an energy bar wrapper in the hole. The water preassure thru that hole was enough to shoot it into the cuddy cabin within 5 minutes. When I sail with the boat not as heavily loaded as when on the Tx200, the amount of water coming thru there is not near as bad.

John

[GreenLake]

Even if water comes into the cuddy, it should not end up in the space between the hulls on a DSII.

[Alan]

GreenLake,

Water coming into the cuddy will drain out through the holes in the cuddy bulkhead, one on each side just forward of the inspection ports. The cuddy floor is about an inch higher than the cockpit floor, so the water will drain from the cuddy, run along the drain channels in the cockpit floor, and back to the self-bailer which will pull it out of the boat. So goes the theory, anyway.

The water that gets into the space between the hull and deck moldings, and from there into the bilge, is water that splashes into the centerboard trunk but doesn't make it all the way to the cuddy. That's because the factory-installed goop that's supposed to seal the passage of the uphaul cable between the hulls has been worn out over the years or was never installed properly to begin with. That allows water that splashes into the centerboard trunk to slosh through the cable hole in the hull molding and run down between the hulls into the bilge.

jdoorly posted a cutaway drawing on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4378

The pipe nipple seals the passage so water can't get between the hulls, but when the passage is sealed as it should be (by the factory or by the pipe nipple fix), it creates a passage for water to splash into the cuddy, as John can attest.

It seems to me that you could stop some of the water getting into the cuddy by threading a plastic cap over the pipe nipple, with only a small hole in it for the cable to pass through. If I get a chance to install the pipe nipple fix before our next outing, I'll give that a try.

[TIM WEBB]

I did the pipe nipple fix on The Red Witch, with the exception of accomplishing it w/o CB removal. It was kinda like overhauling an engine through the tailpipe! Took a couple of tries to get it "just so", but it does seem to have helped: there's much less water in the bilge now after sailing with a heavily loaded boat or in rough seas or both. I also squished some silicone into the end of the pipe, around the cable, and that has helped keep water from squirting into the cuddy ...

However, at the same time I went round the entire boat and sealed up every little crack, crevice, and hole I could find that might be allowing water into the bilge: old screw holes in the cuddy, on the CB trunk, on the seatbacks, the deck, etc. - any and everywhere I could imagine that water in the cuddy or cockpit could find it's way into the bilge. I want my bilge DRY, because on the multi-day excursions I like to do with TRW, and want to do more of, the last thing I need to be doing is constantly pumping it out ...

[jeadstx]

I'm fortunate that the uphaul hole is sealed properly and does not allow water into the centerboard trunk and then into the bilge. My only source of water into the bilge has been thru the inspection ports. I put grease on the threads of the lid and that helped.

John

[brucybaby]

Have faith VInce! An inspection port near the afflicted area is a very handy thing to have! I had a crummy matted repair job from the inside, gooped over with sealant on the bottom at the same location in my DS2. Through the cabin port I was able to rip out the old soggy fiberglass mat that had only been partially saturated with poly resin, grind out the the area with a small DeWalt grinder and reapply a new EPOXY patch from the inside using webbed fiberglass (stronger than the mat). Once setting had begun, I also applied patches of webbed glass on the bottom until the patch was relatively even. Sanded the the bottom patch with a grinder and then fared it out West System 407 fairing filler. It took two days to complete from start to painted finish. The hardest part of the job was anticipating how hard the job would be. Once I got started it was easy! I just returned from wonderful leak free weekend of sailing at Hubbard Lake, MI. Lovin' my DS2 all the more now Take my advice, just do it! You'll be glad you did!

[jdoorly]

Woooee, nice job Bruce! Gotta get me sum dat chit...

[Salty Dog]

That does look good.