DaySailer.org Forum

I recently bought a previously owned DS II and put it in the water for about 30 minutes to test out the outboard motor and the centerboard controls.
I was surprised by the quantity of water that entered the boat up through the pipe where the long gone self=bailer was once mounted. I was also surprised by the water that poured out of the bilge drain at the base of the transom when I opened it on the trailer immediately after haul out. The water ran for probably 20 minutes. I've since observed that the self-bailer drain pipe
opens into the bilge as well to the self-bail venturi on the bottom of the hull. So it seems that water directly enters the bilge through the venturi via the self-bailer pipe. There are finger sized holes in the pipe sides and it appears to be designed that way but's corroded and I'm not sure. I'm ok with a manual plug in the self bailer pipe, but that doesn't seem to address the water entering the bilge from below. I'm sure I'm missing something. If someone can offer information or suggestions I'd appreciate it. I've been reading the DSII bilge/bail/leak posts, which are valuable but I'm still not understanding this yet. Thanks.

"I've since observed that the self-bailer drain pipe opens into the bilge as well to the self-bail venturi on the bottom of the hull. "

I doubt it came from the factory that way. There's no logical reason why it should, on this boat or any other. The whole point of a self-bailer is to suck water out of the boat while it's under way. I'll cheerfully announce myself as newly educated if anyone can tell me why it would be a good idea for a self-bailer to suck water into the bilge.

What year is your DSII?

Butneramus; You mention that water comes up through "the pipe where the long gone self=bailer was once mounted". Do you not have any of the bailer still in place? Is it now just a pipe hole thru the boat?

My self bailer needs to be replaced as it no longer works, but the hardware is still in place and keeps water out of the bilge and with a plug out of the cockpit. D&R Marine sells the replacement bailers. http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DS81

If the old bailer is still there you should be able to see it sticking out the bottom of the hull. The original ones were bronze I think.

John

It looks like my DS II was manufactured in 1976. There is a pipe coming up through the floor of the cockpit just forward of the transom that terminates just above the cockpit floor. On the outside hull below this pipe, and connected to this pipe, is a thing I've been calling a "venturi". Maybe that's the wrong word, but I think it is intended to increase suction self-bailing system as the boat moves through the water. I can't see where there's any other mechanism in the pipe such as a floating ball one-way valve. I've assumed that such a thing may have been there and is now gone. As I described in my previous post, the pipe from the cockpit down to the "venturi" on the hull has holes in it that open into the bilge. I can feel them with my finger. Garden hose and a flashlight tests confirm that they connect with the bilge. I didn't think that was correct but the holes are so large (almost finger size) that they seemed deliberate.
From your helpful replies and the link with a picture of a selfbailer, I'm seeing that there shouldn't be communication between the self-bailer drain and the bilge, regardless of how the holes got there. Is that correct? Thanks!! David

Mine's a 1980, but I think we've got the same self-bailer design. You're right about the venturi. Mine (the factory-original metal Dipersia model) has a plug that threads into the top of the pipe. The plug is hollow and has four small holes in it. The plug can be opened partway, which will allow water to be sucked through the four holes, through the pipe and out the venturi. It can also be closed tightly to seal off the self-bailer.

All I can think of is that your holes must have been installed by a previous owner. I really can't think of any reason why it would be helpful for the self-bailer to open into the bilge. Maybe he thought he was creating a bilge drain plug?

My boat is also a 1976 model. Thought from your original description that it was just the pipe. Mine has the four holes at the bottom to drain out the "venturi" (for lack of a better term), but does not connect with the bilge in any way. My bilge remains fairly dry while sailing. Even after a week sailing the Tx200, the bilge collected almost no water. Tim Webb on the forum recently replaced his self bailer with one from D&R. Maybe he will chime in on this.

John

OK John, chime in I will!

When I rescued her, The Red Witch ('79 DS2) had a through-hull pipe that I suspected was what was left of an original Depersia bailer. It had evidence of having threads at one time, but it was so corroded that they were worn down to almost nothing. It did not leak into the bilge, and I just kept it plugged with a stopper.

After one particular experience where having a working auto-bailer might have made the difference between my bagging and heading for the docks on a multi-day long distance "raid" or continuing on, I decided I better "gits me one". So I bit the bullet and forked over the $50 to D&R. Hey - I got no problem schmearing Rudy and crew whenever possible: I want them to stay in bidness as long as possible!

Installation was a breeze: used a hole saw to cut out the old corroded pipe, then just screwed the new unit in. At first I wondered if the fact that it doesn't match up flush with the hull underneath would matter, but I don't think it does. I used silicone liberally while installing, just so that I could take it apart and do it differently if it didn't work. If/when that ever fails, I'll use something a bit more permanent.

It works as advertised, but there needs to be a fair amount of water in the cockpit to "get it going", so to speak. The slower the boat speed, the more water you need, and vice-versa. Kinda like priming an old timey water pump. But once it starts draining, it does so very quickly! Oh, and of course, the boat needs to be flat/level. It won't work iffn the H2O ain't reachin' the opening!

Just for kicks, google "depersia bailer". Use the quotes. Better yet, do your search in Google Images. I was actually surprised that the plastic version took over for the metal one (bronze/aluminum/?) as early as 1972???

One interesting hit I got is this one, which is actually a post card in the guy's collection. Definitely shows the "finger sized holes" you mention David, but I still can't picture how they would translate into a way for water to get into the bilge?

Might have to scroll down a little/lot:

http://books.google.com/books?id=nQv1Yy ... er&f=false

(I regret that I haven't learned how to provide links to photos yet, sorry). The holes that let water into my bilge are in the old selfbailer pipe section that is below the cockpit deck line. From what everyone's said thus far, I'm fairly sure that the holes in my regard are due to corrosion of the pipe at the level of the bilge, thus the leak. The original threaded stopper with its four drainage holes that was part of the bailer system is long gone from my boat. Just the leaky pipe through the hull remains. Thanks everyone.

I found some flexible black plastic pipe/conduit at the hardware store with an outside diameter just under 3/4 inch. It's the right/tight fit into the old self-bailer's leaking (lateral hole corroded into the bilge) thru-hull drain. I hope that lining the old drain pipe with it and sealing with caulk as needed will solve the problem. Some of the self-bailing function may survive as well. I'll let you know. Thanks everyone.

The flexible black tubing didn't work. Still leaked, would have needed a tube that could balloon out like one of those plumbing flushers that fits on the end of a garden hose, etc. So went to plan B. I plugged the entire pipe up with tar and paper towels. (Didn't have any oakum handy) I'll post the results.

Do yourself a favor: just cut that whole mess out with a hole saw, and install a new auto-bailer. Beats smoke 'n' oakum ...

+1

I've been planning on replacing or removing my (must be) original equipment self bailer since I figured out what it is, recognized that is is incomplete with no bobber stopper, and realized the most likely outcome is going to be someday my cork is going to pop out or get accidentally dislodged by a wayword child's foot or operational equivalent, and my cockpit starts filling with water.

Since I have a bilge pump, I find the concept of the self bailer somewhat redundant and after realizing that I've completely forgotten about it until now, after this sailing season, I think I'll pull it, toss it, and plug the hole permanently.

My plan for this was that I should pretty much be able to clean out the hole, tape off the bottom and just pour some epoxy or otherwise to fill it in. However, from this and other discussions, it sounds with the bailer out, there could be a space open to the bilge into which my epoxy will run preventing me from filling the hole?

If thats the case, I guess I can gob in some fiberglass filler or other inert material to fill the gap and then go with the expoxy. Are there any secrets or recommendations on good/better/best way to do this?

Thanks - Scott

Scott, how do you find redundancy between the self bailer and the bilge pump. If your cockpit has become full of water due to dunking a rail it doesn't mean your bilge has filled with water. I am not against getting rid of the self bailer but seem confused as to how your bilge pump will help.

With a cockpit full of water you could open up your inspection ports and flood the bilge allowing you to use the pump that way. Am I missing something?


Point me in the right direction, thanks
TBone