my "new" DS II

[klb67]

Affrey - you were, perhaps quite actually, in the same place I was 11 months ago. I picked up my 76 DS II from an estate sale last October, filled wtih leaves and covered in grime, that hadn't been sailed in a few years. But the tiller, mast and sails were stored indoors, so they were in great shape with mostly new hardware, and she otherwise cleaned up quite well. I'm relatively new to the DS, but not to sailing. I've gotten a lot of help on this website for my boat, and from local sailors, who looked over my boat and helped me to figure out what I needed to do to get her on the water this year.

I live in Pittsburgh, so I may be able to help you. Send me an email and we can exchange contact info.

Where do you plan to sail? I joined the Moraine Sailing Club this spring and have used their learn to sail program as a way to learn how to sail my DS. I'd recommend it to any new sailer. It's not perfect, but short of having a friend who knows how to sail to teach you in your boat, it is a good option. I've also had my DS out a few times-once in good wind and had a great sail. My boat is dry moored at Watts Bay at Moraine. it is very convenient. There are a few other DS owners at Moriane - one also got his DSII this year and took the LTS class, and just moved his boat to Watts Bay as well. Could we have a new DS fleet to compete with the Flying Scots that predominate the club? Hmmmmm.

Good luck and I look forward to talking with you.

Kevin

[affrey]

Just standard 2 part epoxy? And where do I put it?
I am such a noob when it comes to sailboats, but I want to make sure that I get it right!
Thanks,
Dave

[jdoorly]

Hi Dave, and welcome.

If you drill a hole through solid fiberglass just drill the hole and be done with it. But, if you drill a hole through a sandwich of fiberglass over wood then you must seal the hole so water can't get to the wood and rot it. To do this you drill a larger hole than the hardware requires, for instance for a #10 bolt drill a 1/4" hole, fill the hole with well mixed epoxy thickened with coloidal silica (white) or sawdust (brown) and allow it to cure overnight. Now drill the #10 (3/16") thru-hole. In this way you have encapsulated the wood and water that creeps into the hole won't be able to get to the wood. There is a possibility that the 3/16" hole isn't drilled perfectly in the center of the epoxy plug and if it touches wood the whole process is (Profanity Deleted). So, if your like me and you believe that 'if it's worth doing it's worth overdoing', then go ahead and upgrade the epoxy plug to 3/8", use a centerpunch, and mount the boat squarely (pointy end up!)on your bench drill.

Many of us have found that water has already found it's way in to the plywood reinforcement inside the transom so don't be surprised if you find the wood already wet and mushy. Since sandwich construction usually does not depend on the stiffness inherent in the "meat" but only on having the "bread" kept separated and parallel, it is probably not something to worry about unless you want to add a backstay or have a 50 hp outboard.

[klb67]

There are some good online resources for fiberglass work/repair. Check out Jamestown Distirbutors - they have a bunch of how to articles and videos and you can search them. I'm sure there are several on the different ways to fill holes. Also search you tube. Thickened epoxy is what you want to use. Marine-Tex is also an option - not a "proper" repair, but I've used it with success when I wasn't interested in doing gelcoat repair (on a sunfish).

[GreenLake]

Just standard 2 part epoxy? And where do I put it?
I am such a noob when it comes to sailboats, but I want to make sure that I get it right!

Dave,

@jdoorly has given you the details on "where to put it". For the epoxy, what do you consider "standard". The one thing to never use is quick setting epoxy or the hardware store kind in the dual syringe. For boat building and repair, West System, MAS Epoxy and System Three Resins all offer a range of suitable products. Their shelf life tends to be excellent, so it's feasible to buy something a bit bigger than needed for just your first repair, confident that it will still be usable the next time you need to fix something on your boat.

For example, I keep one of the "caulk cartridges" around with epoxy formulated for gluing (not sagging). With a "self-mixing" tip, you can't screw up the mixing, and you dispense just enough ready mixed epoxy as you need at each step. As long as you continue to push epoxy through the tip at reasonable intervals it won't set up in the tip and you can work continuously.

The downside is, you use up a tip each time, and the small amount of partially mixed epoxy in the tip can't be recovered. But compare that to the upside of not using mixing sticks and cups and having leftover, or prematurely set epoxy there, or worse, being off in your measurement of small quantities and having a batch that does not fully cure.

West Systems sells these as six10 and SystemThree as GelMagic. (By the way, it's amazing what other uses you'll find around the house - I tend to use it for wood repairs where I can't get the parts to fit closely enough for wood glue, or clamping is awkward or both).

Beyond the glue, I keep a pint of laminating epoxy around, to handle repairs involving fiberglass cloth (and it can be used to seal bare wood - which I have on my DS1, but also occasionally around the house).

[affrey]

I apologize for my ignorance, but I am a bit confused. I am replacing the bolts that hold the gudgeon for the rudder onto the transom. The head of 2 of the bolts rusted off and the gudgeon is loose. I would feed the bolts through the existing holes in the transom. Do I still need to drill new holes? If I dont have to drill them, then what do I need to do? As I explained, I am really new at owning a sailboat, so please be patient with me.

[GreenLake]

The transom should be a sandwich at this point. Probe with a nail to see what the state of the wood ("meat" in the "sandwich" is at those points). If still dry, great, if soggy, you may at some point want to replace said wood.

In either case, chisel, scrape etc. some of the wood around the holes and fill with epoxy. If you have, mix some short glasfibers. Easiest is to fill the entire hole and re-drill it once the epoxy has cured. The point is twofold.

One. it prevents moisture from getting into the transom.
Two. Especially if / when the wood is getting soft, the bolt can "crush" it under tensioning or load. Having what amounts to a "bushing" of fiberglass will support the sandwich around the hole, preventing it from being crushed.

[affrey]

Thanks for the heads up and advice. Hopefully, I will get a chance to check it out this weekend. I will let you know what I find. Also, I will have to get some pics up too!

[affrey]

Kevin, kbl67, came over my house this weekend and spent sometime going over it with me and checking everything out. I am a little more confident in my purchase now. We got everything put into the right place and moving correctly! I am very grateful to klb67 for taking the time and having the patience to do this! I learned a lot from Kevin. I also need an outhaul line and a line to attach the boom vang. He did say that the sails were well used but had a lot of recreational life left in them. I am very proud of my "Bad Idea".

[GreenLake]

That's the way to do it. Now if you can bribe him to join you on the water for a shakedown cruise, that would be the best. And then, when you've sailed a few (or even few dozen) times, have him come out with you again. Whatever the bribe is, I'll guarantee you, you'll profit from the exchange.

[jeadstx]

I agree that if you can get him to sail with you a couple time it would help you learn. Then when you are confident to sail, get both your boat and his boat out together.

John

[klb67]

Happy to help Affey. As I told you, I got the same kind of assistance from two sailors last fall when I got my boat. Happy to pass it on. Reading and looking at pictures can only help you so much in assessing your equipment and understanding how the boat is supposed to be set up and sailed.

Hopefully we won't run out of good weather this fall and can get some time on the water. I'd be glad to crew your boat and would welcome your assistance with mine. I don't like the look of my weekend schedule over the next month, but I'm hoping I can get out.

I'm no expert, or even veteran, sailor yet. But I am pleased that this past weekend I completed all of the on-the-water skills and written test to pass our local club's learn to sail program on their Flying Scots, and I earned my U.S. Sailing small boat certification record book. It definitely helped to start me in the right direction to sailing my own DS.

[affrey]

Hey klb67, it is almost sailing weather! I just uncovered mine for the winter and starting to clean it up and get ready for summer. I hope your offer still stands on teaching me a few things. That would be awesome. I am not sure what my schedule is like to enroll in the Moraine school this spring. I am working on it though.

[klb67]

Affey - check out the club's website. The first LTS day is this Sunday. There still may be room to sign up to sail on the Flying Scots - don't wait to sign up though, or they fill up. I think they do 10 sessions or so throughout the summer - I think I made 4 last summer, but that was enough for me, and worth it. You certainly don't need to make all of them to get a benefit. In addition, we'll find time to get out together. I sailed my DS solo two weekends ago for the first time. It was fun, but I'm glad I got good time out on the FS's last year before trying to solo my DS. It's a lot of work solo when there is really good wind.

[affrey]

Here is a "before" pic from the week I brought her home. I plan on doing a little cleaning on her this weekend as well as a few repairs. I want to add a flag halyard on the side stay (shroud) and my daughters designed the cuddy interior which should be fun to do. I will hopefully have a few "after" photos as well.