What Daysailer did I just snag?

[gunnerasch]

Thank you gentlemen for your comments.

Ive progressed a bit further. Ive bought what I believe to be all or most of the bits and pieces to at least get the running rigging up and machined my own upper mast step half. Ive not located a pair of chain plates as of yet, so what Im going to temporarily do is fabricate a pair and install them until I find a pair of original ones. This will get me on the water so I can check/sail/enjoy the boat while Im doing the rest of the restoration

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Oday

Keep watching and feel free PLEASE to make suggestions and add comments!

Oh..anyone got an old jib kicking around? Cheap? Buying new sails for this old girl simply isnt in the budget at the moment. Now I regret swapping off my Thistle jib that Ive had kicking around out in storage.

I found it interesting to see that 1/4" line was used for halyards. Thats a fair amount of main sail to be hanging from 1/4" line, so Ill be rigging it with at least 5/16" and did cut my replacement masthead pulleys for 3/8".."just in case"

[GreenLake]

Take XLS Yacht braid a typical double braid polyester rope that you might use for a halyard if you aren't being fancy.

Strength for a 3/16" starts at 1200 pounds and goes up by about 1,000 pounds per 1/16". By 5/16" we have reached 3,300. That's ultimate strength. For working load, you'd divide by 5, so 3/16" gets you 240# and you gain about 200# per step to end up with 660# for the 5/16". From that perspective, 1/4" doesn't look too bad with 440#.

Now, what about stretch. XLS is not the most low-stretch rope you could get, so it stretches 1.5% at 10% of strength and 2.2% at 20% of strength. Because we assumed 20% as our maximum safe working load, we get less than 2.2% of stretch if we stay inside those conditions.

The maximum actual load on the halyard is estimated by how much wind force it takes to capsize a DS with fully hiked crew. Any higher wind pressure would not lead to higher loads, but simply capsize the boat. Allowing for shock loads, it may be possible to exceed 240#, but 440# seems unlikely and 660# seems a real stretch. Bearing in mind this is just an estimate of likely values, and not a detailed calculation, the 1/4" still looks comfortable.

Back to stretch. If we dimensioned our rope the right way, we might expect that a typical gust reaches 1/2 the working load, and with a factor 5, that's 10% of rope strength and for XLS that would be 1.5% stretch. Between 1/4 and 5/16, the working load goes up by 50%, so the stretch would go down by a third (to 1%). However, the stretch isn't fully linear, otherwise 10% of full strength (half working load) would have .7% of stretch and not 1.5%. This is probably due to the effect of "construction" stretch vs. "fiber" stretch. At first, the braid is pulled tight, then the fibers themselves get stretched.

So, increasing the size further, would just put us in the region where the initial stretch is not enough to pull out the construction stretch. If the loads are sized right for 1/4, going to 5/16 gives some improvement, but if the loads in fact allowed 3/16, going to 5/16 might not improve matters over going to 1/4.

As a result, I see no benefit to providing for 3/8" sheeves...

If you want lower stretch, the way to go would be to upgrade to XLS Extra, where you get 10% more working load with only 1/3 the stretch. For that rope, 1/4" is definitely good on both the load and the stretch.

Or you could use Amsteeland have the same .5% stretch and 500lbs working load with 1/8" diameter. And it's 5 times lighter...and way easier to splice.

You can combine the Amsteel with another line of cheaper make, so that the Amsteel will just be long enough to take the full load and the other part of the line is only used in hoisting the sail - that's what I ended up with after I initially used 5/16" XLS for several years.

[jeadstx]

Another source for line is Duckworks which caters to the home boat builders. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/line.htm They sell line and hardware at reasonable prices.

John

[GreenLake]

Duckworks is a great place, and their prices for rope are in the ballpark, but it pays to shop around. I checked them against a source for the ropes I discussed, comparing equivalent ropes and sizes. Spectra and Dyneema are two brand names for the same type of fiber, and while the differences are minor, there are some. Amsteel AS-78 from Samson lists 30% stronger (http://www.fisheriessupply.com/samson-rope-as-78) compared to the Spectra line in your link. For example the 3/16" lists almost as strong as the 1/4" in Spectra.

Prices scale differently for vendors; the 1/8" is 20% more expensive at DW while the 3/16" is noticeably cheaper...., but 3/16" in AS-78 is still less than 1/4" in Spectra for only 10% difference in rated strength. Go figure.

[TIM WEBB]

If you want to go directly to the source for Spectra, try this company:
http://www.csrbraids.com

[gunnerasch]

Ill check down at Minnies next time Im in Costa Mesa (California) they give me pretty good prices on line. I rigged the E20 completely for about $30
At the moment, Ive got some 3/8 and 5/16" line on it..I just put the mast up today. I had to machine the upper half of the mast step, stem for the forestay and machined both chain plates and installed em all this past week. I installed a used but decent swiveling main sheet with camcleat and will be putting on swiveling camcleats for the jib lines.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422822 ... 2602/Oday#

Today we had some decent wind (didnt go outside until it was too late to go sailing..damnit) and put the single sail (no jib) up. Its not bad..but the bolt rope is gone and the previous owner installed slugs in the luff and apparently used it loose footed. No slugs in the foot. (Is this a "bad thing"?) Seemed not to be blown out though..going to have to now make battens for the main. As a side thought..I stuck on a spare main for my Ensenada 20..and found something interesting..
The E20 main is 6" too long in the luff and 18" short in the foot, and that brought something interesting up. What keeps the boom from NOT sliding down the mast any farther than about 4" below the sail insert cutout? I damned sure couldnt find anything to prevent it from sliding down farther. If I can get it down about another 8"..that E20 sail would be a good match. Short in the foot..but..I can live with that. The E20 is a fractional mast head rig..so the jib was about 3' too long...which begs the question...Ive got a spare mast hound and could change that rig to a fractional mast head and use a taller jib...genoa sized on this boat. Any issues other than perhaps over powering the boat? Most of my sailing is light air summer desert sailing..anyone know of anyone who has done this or is it simply a bad idea? Chuckle..I dont have the money to buy even a second hand jib (unless its really cheap..anyone have one?) but I do have the hardware and sails to make a rig change.

Oh..where the hell do I get a complete drain to fit the back of the transom? There is a hole for one..but nothing in it.

Suggestions, comments etc..always tickled to get them!

Thanks!

[Alan]

Gunner,

K.C. was good enough to point out to me a while back that the downhaul cleat works as a sail stop. Here's the one from Dwyer Mast, about 2/3 of the way down the left-hand column:

https://www.dwyermast.com/items.asp?cat ... M-284+Mast

The aluminum tubing is 1/2-inch diameter with a fairly thick wall. From the looks of your new step and chainplates, you shouldn't have any trouble fabricating one.

[GreenLake]

A number of things can happen when you change your sail plan.

One is simply overall power. If you sail in reliably light winds, then overcanvassing by itself might not be problematic.

The other is the location of the sails' center of effort, which affects the boat's balance. If your new sails move the center of effort forward, then your bow would be blown downwind and you would have "lee helm", generally thought to be a bad thing.

If the sails move the center of effort aft, you pick up weather helm, as the boat tries to turn into the wind. Slight weather helm is thought to be a fine thing, too much and the corrective rudder action acts like a "brake".

To correct either of these conditions you would have to move the mast (or the CB). Neither are trivial operations. For slight corrections, a small change in the mast rake may be helpful (moving the mast foot a very short distance) - but once you've used up the natural range of mast step positions you're out of luck.

If you want to explore a different sail plan, one exercise might be to draw a scale plan for both existing DS sails and your alternative.

Then, you connect each corner of each sail with a line to the mid-point of the opposing side. Ideally, these meet in a single point, which is an approximation of where the center of effort for that sail might be. You the connect the tow centers, and find the combined center by weighting the effort by area. If your main has 60% of the total area, you move along the line until you are at a point that's 40% from the main's center of effort and 60% from the jib's center of effort.

That would be a very crude estimate of where the total center of effort might be. You should compare that to the same estimate for the original DS sail plan. If the two come out rather similar, you might have a shot at making it go. If not, it's probably a bad idea...

You might look around for info on how to design a sail plan. There may be more refined techniques out there that you can use.

[gunnerasch]

Thank you Alan for pointing out the sailstop/cleat. I can see it clearly in the luff groove down low... and Im nowhere near that when I try pulling down on the boom. So I think Im going to have to fabricate a bar with a very slight wedge mounted to it..put it in the sail entry port on the mast..and see if I can tap it downwards. The mast may simply be sprung or closed up a small amount and perhaps this will open it up well enough. My sail has a cunningham grommet in it, but when I pull downwards..it gets a fair amount of slack at the top of the boom. Granted..the foot bolt rope has disintergrated and Im now running a loose footed main, at least until I can affort to have that fixed (need the main on my project V-224 done before all else). I should have the two jib cleats installed by this weekend and with the exception of mounting the rudder gudgeon..shrug..she should be sail-able. Ill want to take her out and put her in the lake and see how it all works, and do the first "float test" to see what if any serious work needs to be done. Its been up to 101F the last couple days..its gonna be a long hot summer, so getting out on the water is gonna be a priority. I probably ought to pick the old girl up with the forklift and see if the centerboard actually comes down and goes back up first...

Thanks guys!

Gunner

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422822 ... 2602/Oday#
https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602

[gunnerasch]

A rather unexpected question.. I found this in my cuddy

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422822 ... 4665644242

It looks like some sort of pipe plug. Is that normal in the cuddy of a '71 Daysailer2?
its located just inside the cuddy opening, left of centerline but not quite to the level of the seat tanks.

Also.,there is pair of eyestraps to the left of this (one visible in the photo..the other one just outside of the left side of the camera view.
They are oriented in the direction of the port side running light.
What the dickens are those for?

Thanks!!

Gunner

[GreenLake]

The "pipe" fitting, if found at or near the lowest part of the hull could be a "drain". I have one in my DS1 that is rusted shut and I may have glassed it over on the outside - but mine is at the rear end of the CB and anyway the DS1 is a single hull. I don't need it, because my trailers are never level, so the transom drain takes care of any collected water. But it's a 'pipe plug' so that seems to indicate related purpose....

The eyestraps could have been for a number of things and to me, do not appear original. Whatever someone needed to hold down to the floor.

[gunnerasch]

That pipe plbg is inside the cabin..the cuddy just left of centerline and directly behind the bulkhead opening. What the heck is it for???

[jeadstx]

You might want to put a camera thru the cockpit inspection port and see if something was install below that plug. Can't be a drain plug by where it is at, but may have been there to act as access to something else near the inspection port. A small battery pack for running lights maybe? Speculating from the electrical wires nearby in the pictures. That plug could be reached from the port.

Another thought is that the plug may have been attached to a small bilge pump, also within reach of the port.

John

[gunnerasch]

Well I put my camera in the inspection hole(s) and took some photos this evening..and found absolutely nothing to do with that pipe plug.
I did find a bunch of styrofoam packed under the seats and a golf ball...but thats all that was in the under hull. No idea of what that plug was/is supposed to do.
Its basically glued to the deck inside the cuddy in a threaded boss. And Ive not a clue what it was supposed to do. So..Ill seal it up and then seal the 5-8 other screw holes in the cuddy deck.

The decking in the cuddy is mighty thin. Is that normal? Id be a bit concerned about actually falling through it if I crawled in there. I was a bit shocked to find (1) stringer under there for stiffness. No wonder its bouncey.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422822 ... 8141717826

[jeadstx]

Good pictures of the interior (and the golf ball). On my boat I filled those void areas with "pool noodles" for flotation. Would have thought something would have been connected to that plug. Apparantly all the plug did was to remove the airtight integrity of the inner hull.

John