This is BAD

[seasick]

My mast fell yesterday. I'm not 100% sure what caused it.

I took the boom/sail off and left it on the dock so we could motor out. It was windy and pretty choppy. Within a couple of minutes the mast began to look really unstable, I cut the engine and we ran up to it.. It was going to go. The port shroud came off from the mast end. I could not unpin the mast..so it took it all with it.

I know that the port shroud had come off before we allowed the mast to fall over to starboard, but I'm not sure that it was the only problem or just the death nell. The mast had started "looking unstable". swaying too much. I don't recall seeing the shroud down at that point, but things went south so quickly (and dangerously) it's hard to say. All of a sudden you could see it was going to go.

The entire mast detached and we were able to get it in the boat and go back in.

I'm not sure the cause but it' may be only that my shrouds and forestay were not tight enough They reached around the spreaders but weren't strung tight. I know not to have them so tight as to damage the deck, but ... I just don't know.
Underneath the mast is an aluminum piece sticking up thru the cuddy to which the bottom of the 'pin piece' was attached. Not sure if all daysailiers are the same but there is a square piece at the bottom of the mast that fits on top of it's partner piece (attached to the mast that' sticks up thru the cuddy. Two pins are put thru and this, and along with the shrouds and forestay it holds the mast.

Both the pin "partners" ripped off revealing a rather corroded hollow aluminum piece sticking up from the cuddy. Part of that piece was gone. It may have torn from this incident I'm not sure. It may be the culprit if it had weakened there and was exacerbated by the choppy ride. I"d hate to think it was my ignorance of the shroud tension but it's possible.

I'm going over today.. take some pics check out the details. I couldn't wait to secure the boat best I could and get off. My best friend of 30 years was with me, but I was still apalled at the possible danger to us and embarrassed.

In regard to my downhaul post I did check out my sail attachment and I had indeed secured the sail to the grommet in tack end of the boom. I looked for another grommet up the sail for the cunningham and I do not have one. I see a large patch so possibly it was torn, removed and patched over. (guess I need a moment of redemption here I did secure the sail properly there) Glad the thread kicked off a discussion and although I glanced it quickly before sharing my new "adventure" here, I saw more thoughts and advice I did not know. (surprise surprise) . It's all in the plus column for me.

Certainly will appreciate your thoughts, experience and advice on this mess. Thanks

[willyhays]

I feel for you and understand feeling embarrassed, but rest assured, many of us have done similar things and worse! But more about that in a minute. Don't know if you know this, but replacement parts are available from drmarine.com. I think they will have all that you need including the tabernacle (rectangular metal hinge thingy with the two pins that attaches to the base of the mast).

I once was helping remove a mast from a 35' sailboat. The mast itself was about 50' tall. I pulled all of the clevis pins that attached the rigging to the deck of the boat. As I pulled out the last remaining pin I looked up and realized that I had forgotten to secure the rope that we were going to use to gently lower the (200 lb) mast down. Miraculously, no one was injured. Can't say the same for the brand new car that was parked alongside the boat dock. The mast replacement cost about $3500. The car was a total loss.

[willyhays]

Forgot to ask: were you able to determine if the shroud broke, or the pin fell out, or the tang that attaches the shroud to the mast pulled out or broke? Also, have you considered replacing all of the old rigging? Sometimes old rigging components will have weakness that are very difficult to detect by visual inspection. When I bought my 1997 Day Sailer, the first thing I did was replace all standing rigging (forestay, shrouds, chainplates, stem fitting, spreader brackets, and fasteners).

With respect to rigging tension. Assuming that your boat is structurally sound and rigging components in good condition, the Day Sailer can handle a surprising amount of rig tension. Conversely, if the rigging is too loose, the mast can swing back and forth, especially when motoring in wavy conditions; this can create rather high loads on the components. There are posts on this site that discuss that topic.

[seasick]

Thanks willyhays, Your story knocked some self-pity and shame off of me for sure. It could have been way worse so I have to be grateful and need to lighten up with the pride.

I have reassessed the damage this morning. I was too run-over to take a good look yesterday. It may not be as bad as I thought.

The stationary part of the mast that goes thru the cuddy is undamaged. The entire assembly came off the bottom of the mast-- the tabernacle (thanks!) and both the heavy galvanized parts it is attached to . Okay I just jumped over to DR marine ..and apparently all these pieces I'm describing are ALL part of the tabernacle assembly, not just the hinge part like I was thinking. This is good!

The bottom of my mast is torn through at one of the screw holes. This might be a problem. Hoping you guys may have some ideas/advice on how to fix that so I can reattach the new tabernacle. ?? I unscrewed the old one and removed it from the boat.

The rivets failed on the port shroud but I have a pop-rivet gun now from when I re-attached the spreader.

It is possible that the failure of that shroud caused the entire failure but I do think that I did not have them tight enough and that started the dominoes falling. They seemed pretty loose as we got underway.. I should have listened to my instincts ..now I know better. Thanks again for all your advice. Let's see where I can go from here.








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[seasick]

I just saw your second post willyhays. The thing (tang) that attaches the shroud to the mast pulled out..the rivets failed. Of course likely from the swing and sway like I said.

I will definitely look into replacing the standing rigging, thanks!! Especially at the mast end, since that is the second piece that has come off the mast. Sounds dumb but never thought of it.. I'll check all of it now and likely go on the safe side. Yeah... definitely a great idea!!

I have seen other posts regarding shroud/stay tension. I will pay close attention to those recommendations.

[jeadstx]

Seasick, are your shrouds the original 3/32" or the heavier 1/8" ones. If they are the original ones, I recommend replacing them with the heavier ones from D&R Marine. A loose shroud may have contributed to the rivets pulling loose and failing. On my boat I keep my shrouds fairly tight. Very little play. I lost a shroud once where the split ring came off, fortunately didn't loose the mast, but led to a capsize while repairing while under sail. Since then I put riggers tape over my split rings to prevent a repeat.

Might be a good time to check all the rivets on your mast.

As far as damage to the mast near the hinge plate, if it causes the mast to be shortened a bit, you may want to get a slightly long new lower section to compensate. Dwyer Mast can sell you a small mast section at a reasonable price.

John

[GreenLake]

What jeadstx wrote. Replace both shrouds with 1/8, re-fasten all tangs and in the future tighten them until you can strum an F note (not sure which octave, but you get the point, you should be able to get some note).

Please spelunk in the older posts in the forum, there's a lot of discussion of similar accidents and how to recover from them (rebuild).

Finally, "partners" are the opening in the deck, I assume what you meant were the two pieces that form the mast hinge (which many people call a tabernacle, even though a real tabernacle loos a bit different).

[TIM WEBB]

+ 1 on new rigging. Best "insurance" you can buy. Every rig has a weakest link - trick is to keep identifying and remedying them until the weakest one is still strong enough to withstand everything that conditions can throw at it ...

[seasick]

I will measure the shrouds and see if they are the larger. I will definitely replace all rivets attached to the mast as this is the second thing that has come off the mast this season.

Thanks all for reinforcing to me how I must check my rigging and keep it up to date and in good condition. I will check all of it and replace anything that looks old or sketchy. The boat is a '73 or thereabouts, so who knows how long it's been on there. I will get to work on it right away.

Thanks John jeadstyx about the possibility of replacing the lower portion of the mast and where to get it. That may end up being an easier, safer fix than trying to reinforce the tear at the bottom of the mast.

Yes I now know it's a tabernacle or at least referred to as such. (I'm learning and remembering these terms more readily now.) I was still in a panic this morning before I got back over to the boat. I did probably think I was the first and only that is has ever happened to and feared that the remedy was to give the boat a Viking funeral.
So Greenlake, yes I will go spelunking for repair ideas. I have read warnings in the archives, but there's nothing like having it be MY problem on MY boat to have it make sense and sink in--especially since all the learning seems overwhelming at first. If nothing else this has me learning A LOT about my boat.

I value and appreciate all your advice and experience. Thanks for your patient and generous sharing.

[jeadstx]

Only very rarely does someone come up with a situation that someone else hasn't already encountered and asked about. With the long history of these boats, most situations are documented on the forum somewhere.

John

[ldeikis]

Seasick--

I'm going through a similar thing. The mast bits are $16.50/ft from Dwyer. I had hoped to salvage mine, but ended up ordering a new piece from Dwyer. Note that their website will seemingly charge you for a full 19' even though you've entered only 3' or so. I called and they said don't worry, we'll only charge you for what you entered. Hopefully that's true.

Don't forget to measure ALL the shrouds. When I bought my boat I put a caliper on "the shrouds" to make sure they'd been upgraded. They had, or so I thought. In this current mess, I realized the previous owner had only done the forestay, which must have been the one I measured by pure coincidence. The side two are the ancient originals.

Last comment: the forum won't allow you to search some really common terms, but if you google something like "daysailer.org/forum mast broken" google will work around that limitation.

Best of luck.

Luke

[seasick]

Thanks Luke. I wondered how to measure those shrouds.-- wondered if I needed a 'caliper'. Found that word in my memory somewhere. The world of tools in fairly new to me, but I'm probably going to have quite a collection when I'm done! That's one I'll probably borrow from my neighbor.

I Wondered what that mast bit was going to run. Good to know. Also the google search is a great tip!!! Thanks. Funny, my forestay is the thinner one--so I'm guessing my shrouds were replaced.

I took off the shrouds and forestay today, took the boom and mast back to the house. My neighbor looked at the tear at the bottom of the mast and thinks he may be able to reinforce it somehow. he also thinks he can straighten out my mangled tabernacle. I'm not too optimistic about the tabernacle, but hey maybe. Lots of retirees here with tons of machines and tools that need a reason.

Now that I have seen the guts of my tabernacle it has me wondering why my boat was set up to attach the mast in the most difficult and aggravating way. I'm going to google search that here and see what I find. There may be a reason for it (matching those two hinges up exactly and sliding in the pins) But I don't think so. I see no reason why I can't attach the whole piece to the mast end and just plop it into the mast bit and screw it in. Frankly I think the way the mast attaches is crazy unstable anyway.. but I digress. A different topic. Thanks!

[Salty Dog]

I think mine are the original. I may need to change mine to the 1/8 in. ones.

SD

[talbot]

Current issue of Small Boat Advisor has a short piece on selecting rivets. Having soft aluminum rivets for the hinge plates is probably a good idea because they mainly just hold the plates onto the mast extrusions. The force there is all compression. If a mast comes down, they usually shear off without damaging the tubing. However, the rivets that attach the shrouds up top should be stainless steel, because they are under a lot of tension. Depending on how muscular you are, you might want to add a really nice rivet gun to your kit for stainless rivets. I find it takes every last ounce of hand strength for me to get them to pop.

[Salty Dog]

Does X/O shrouds involve rivets? If it does I have an air rivet gun.

SD