Standing Rigging, replace it or leave it?

[itguy1010]

My '73' DSII has the original standing rigging and I've been reading posts in this forum about losing masts due to stay or shroud failure and I'm getting worried. My boat has been extremely well kept and my rigging looks very, very good at all the fittings and shows no signs of corrosion or fatigue. I had thought about just switching this winter to the D & R 1/8" rigging but now I'm wondering if I really need to change it. I know its 42 years old but I just can't see anything about it that looks like it should be replaced.

I guess I'm looking for some advice on this one. I don't really mind spending the money on new rigging but I'm also of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset. Are there some special inspection procedures that I'm missing? I don't race this boat and it never gets pushed hard. But I don't want to be "that guy" who lost a mast because I didn't replace the 42 year old stays.

Does anyone know how much more weight aloft the new rigging adds to the boat? And, has anyone looked into synthetic standing rigging such as Dynex Dux? Its way overkill for a daysailer I know but its got some considerable advantages over stainless. I don't moor or dock this boat. Its trailered every time we sail and kept in a garage (has been for its entire life according to the previous and original owner and I believe him).

Thanks in advance for the suggestions/experiences.

Eric

[jeadstx]

I upgraded my stays to the 1/8" ones from D&R. Don't regret it. I kept my original rigging and have it stored in the bilge as spare parts when I'm camp cruising. The D& D&R stays also come with better turnbuckles. I would recommend upgrading if you can.

John

[itguy1010]

I upgraded my stays to the 1/8" ones from D&R. Don't regret it. I kept my original rigging and have it stored in the bilge as spare parts when I'm camp cruising. The D& D&R stays also come with better turnbuckles. I would recommend upgrading if you can.

John

Thanks, John.

I looked at the D&R stays and there is a more expensive option for "Full Size" turnbuckles. Are you saying that the regular lower priced set of 1/8" stays has better TBs? They look the same as what I already have.

This is what I was looking at:

http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DS800

Or are you talking about this?:

http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DS800A

The full size turnbuckle option looks fine but I think I'd be prone to over tightening the stays and they're another $50. The standard TBs let me just get everything nice and tight by hand but don't really let me over tighten unless I took some tools to it.

[jeadstx]

I was thinking about the ones with the full size turnbuckles. I keep my stays fairly tight. I think Greenlake mentioned in another post, you should be able to strum a note, can't remember which note he said tho, maybe he'll chime in. I find the open (full size) turnbuckles easier to use.

John

[GreenLake]

The lower price set is useful for boats with mast jacks. The adjusters allow to customize the length of each stay to fit the boat, while the tension is supplied by the mast jack. With full size turnbuckles, one would be able to apply tension without a mast jack.

[TIM WEBB]

Eric, I went with the full size ones and don't regret it. Also, one of these (one of the best Xmas presents I ever got!) makes for really quick setup:

http://www.bargainboatparts.com/p-10316 ... evers.aspx

Rudy at D&R made my new forestay the correct length to fit with the lever (at no extra charge I might add). With the lever, you set up and tension the rig once with it closed, then every time you rig up from then on you know you're getting the same tension.

Also, your standing rigging might look OK, but also take a good look at the stemhead, chainplates, spreaders/brackets, and the hounds. Those are the tangs riveted to the mast that the stays connect to - I just like to throw out nautical terms once in a while! ;-P

You mentioned synthetic standing rigging: my old stays were swaged directly to the tangs, and had to be destroyed to remove them, so I was unable to save them for spares as John did. The new stays have forks and are attached with clevis pins. I keep enough 1500 lb Spectra, finger trapping tool, etc. on board to replace all three stays on the water if the need arose (catastrophic swage failure, whatever), but luckily so far, knock wood, it hasn't. It's very tempting though to make up a set with Spectra and at least try them out, under controlled conditions of course. Turnbuckles and lever would be replaced by simple finger traps. I think you'd still need thimbles at the tangs, chainplates, and stemhead ... ?

[itguy1010]

I was thinking about the ones with the full size turnbuckles. I keep my stays fairly tight. I think Greenlake mentioned in another post, you should be able to strum a note, can't remember which note he said tho, maybe he'll chime in. I find the open (full size) turnbuckles easier to use.

John

Thanks again, John. I think I keep my stays fairly tight too. Since we trailer, I am always refining my launch "system" to try and become more efficient and spend less time on the ramp and more on the water. I do the note strum to check but it seems rather vague and what has been working well for me is to just hand tighten the original small turnbuckles as tight as I can and leave it alone. I get a little slop in the leeward stay when close hauled and scooting along in a good breeze but it seems that is pretty normal according to other threads on the DSII.

The lower price set is useful for boats with mast jacks. The adjusters allow to customize the length of each stay to fit the boat, while the tension is supplied by the mast jack. With full size turnbuckles, one would be able to apply tension without a mast jack.

Appreciate the help as always GreenLake. Now you have me confused since I don't have a mast jack and my DSII has the small turnbuckles (adjusters/?) and from the Oday literature it seems like that was the OEM setup.

Eric, I went with the full size ones and don't regret it. Also, one of these (one of the best Xmas presents I ever got!) makes for really quick setup:

http://www.bargainboatparts.com/p-10316 ... evers.aspx

Rudy at D&R made my new forestay the correct length to fit with the lever (at no extra charge I might add). With the lever, you set up and tension the rig once with it closed, then every time you rig up from then on you know you're getting the same tension.

Also, your standing rigging might look OK, but also take a good look at the stemhead, chainplates, spreaders/brackets, and the hounds. Those are the tangs riveted to the mast that the stays connect to - I just like to throw out nautical terms once in a while! ;-P

You mentioned synthetic standing rigging: my old stays were swaged directly to the tangs, and had to be destroyed to remove them, so I was unable to save them for spares as John did. The new stays have forks and are attached with clevis pins. I keep enough 1500 lb Spectra, finger trapping tool, etc. on board to replace all three stays on the water if the need arose (catastrophic swage failure, whatever), but luckily so far, knock wood, it hasn't. It's very tempting though to make up a set with Spectra and at least try them out, under controlled conditions of course. Turnbuckles and lever would be replaced by simple finger traps. I think you'd still need thimbles at the tangs, chainplates, and stemhead ... ?

Hi again, Tim. That QR lever is pretty cool but the price is a little steep. It probably would save me some time on the ramp and give me more consistency in tensioning the rigging. I'll have to look into it for sure. "The hounds"... Nice. I'm a dog person so that works for me. My stays are pinned and cotter pin kept on the tangs so it looks like an easy job to replace everything. Spare parts are great to have but I really cant envision recovering from a stay failure on the water with just a new stay. I think I'd consider myself lucky to make it back to port with all my spars. I'm going to look into the Spectra/synthetic rigging options and see how much more it will cost. And, it has to be at least as easy and fast as a SS system.

Eric

[GreenLake]

If you are tensioning the rig via the stays (that is not by using a mast jack) the cost of for a lever will probably repay itself in added convenience very quickly. If using the lever on the forestry is enough to set up overall rig tension, you may not need the full size turnbuckles for the side stays; the adjusters should be fine for fine tuning while the rig isn't tensioned.

[TIM WEBB]

Precisely GL: even if the lever had not been a gift, I probably would have invested in one anyway. Had I ordered the new stays *after* receiving said gift, I probably would have gone with the less expensive turnbuckles, knowing that I would "set and forget 'em". But I like the fact that the heavy duty ones are in fact pretty stout. Before replacing the stays, I had no turnbuckles on the shrouds at all, just those fork type adjusters with all the holes in them, and relied on hand-tightening a small open turnbuckle on the forestay to tension the rig. Never could get as much or as consistent tension on the rig as I can with the lever.

Eric, I love looking into various "nautical terms" to see where they originated, and the hounds is pretty straightforward - others ... not so much!

This is one plausible explanation I found:

"On traditionally-rigged craft, the shrouds are attached by splicing or seizing a loop in the top which fits right round the mast. To stop the loops sliding down, roughly triangular pieces of timber are screwed (originally nailed) to the mast for them to sit on. Someone a few hundred years ago thought these timber chocks were shaped like hounds' cheeks. The name then slowly transferred from the chocks themselves to the area of the mast."

A couple of years ago I was following along with the re-build of the Bluenose up in Lunenburg Nova Scotia, and they posted some very detailed pics of this very arrangement:

http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/Bluen ... rt=3&o=142

[NoCashOnBoard]

42 years is a long time for the standing rigging. I have 1986 DS3 and the first time out my rigging failed. It wasn't a pleasant experience with the spouse and son on board and I'm trying to show everyone that sailing is a fun and enjoyable experience and safe, too. My rigging showed no signs of giving out; no fishhooks, meat hooks, corrosion or any other signs of failing. It just went when I tacked around going back to the beach. Stuck out in the middle of nowhere and not a boat willing to stop and help. I would recommend replacing the standing rigging on any boat with unknown history of when they have been last replaced. The $300 dollars is worthwhile insurance for what it could cost when your mast goes over the side. I also had to replace the tangs, the tabernacle, the mast heel casting, the chain plates and several other parts that were damaged in the dismasting. It's one of those things, you pay now or you pay a whole lot more later. If you break the mast, it's over $500 dollars just for the extrusion from DR Marine. Besides the new parts are way better than the factory supplied parts - I feel much better having these critical components on board versus the crappy factory supplied parts. It's night and day difference between the two.