DS II Hiking Straps Installation

[Rakozy]

Where in your DS II do you attach hiking straps? Did you make your own or purchase commercially?

Any photos?

Rakozy

[talbot]

I made my own with webbing from StrapWorks. They anchor to SS footman's loops that are attached to the bulkhead over the drain plug holes and to the ridges on the floor of the cockpit near the bailer well. I can still use the drain plugs; the plugs just go in from inside the cuddy rather than from the cockpit. I put an inspection port just aft of the ridges near the stern, and I used the opening to install a reinforcing strip under the floor to support the aft footman's loops.

I got SS strap sliders, D-rings, and adjustment buckles from West Marine.

The placement was determined by putting the straps as close to the tanks as possible while still being able to get my feet under the straps. I used to have straps far inboard along the CB trunk, where a lot of boats have them. But my experience has been that it is much more comfortable and stable to have my knees bent rather than extended. That is particularly true on gusty days when you have to get inboard quickly after a gust dies.

I don't have a closeup, but you can see the positioning on the floor of the cockpit in this photo.

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[Skippa]

Very timely post. This is one of two projects I have in mind for this winter. Initial thought is to have the straps removable. Great photo and description of your install Talbot. Thanks, Got me thinking !

[GreenLake]

The placement was determined by putting the straps as close to the tanks as possible while still being able to get my feet under the straps. I used to have straps far inboard along the CB trunk, where a lot of boats have them. But my experience has been that it is much more comfortable and stable to have my knees bent rather than extended. That is particularly true on gusty days when you have to get inboard quickly after a gust dies.

Nice to get such specific reasoning.

The DSII seems to offer more natural places to fit these than the DS1 without the bulkhead at the cuddy opening.

Optimal placement may well differ on factors such as leg length. I've sailed in some smaller dinghies where I had to sometimes use the strap opposite instead of the one next to me...

[talbot]

Initial thought is to have the straps removable. . .

Removable is easy. I take my straps out for cleaning and storage every winter. My straps fasten in with sliders and then tension with friction buckles. To remove, just release the buckles and unthread the webbing from the sliders.

I should say that my setup is unnecessarily heavy. You get a similar effect with less weight by stitching or riventing the D-rings into the webbing and then tieing them to the anchor straps with an accessory cord. Use a trucker's hitch or similar knot to tension the straps. I had that on an earlier boat and may go back to it on this one.

[ldeikis]

I "temporarily" added straps to my boat by simply running a line through the cuddy drains, over the forward centerboard hump inside the cuddy, and rearward around the back of the CB trunk, tied to make a snug loop. I threaded a pool noodle onto each side of this loop and tied it off at that length. Then I ran a second line aft out the 1" transom drain, up and over the transom through a bowline on the inboard end, with the bitter end leading forward towards the pool noodle loop. A simple trucker's hitch between the transom line and the loop with the pool noodles allows me to tension the thing good and taut. I have the boat in the driveway right now and can snap a picture if that explanation is totally useless.

This whole project cost about $4 and took maybe 5 minutes to install. However, I've been sailing it this way all summer and the placement of the straps works perfectly for me, so I'm going to make it more permanent. The one downside (besides looking a little shy of shipshape where it loops over the transom) is that it allows rough water to slosh in through that 1" hole. I thought I'd use a SS eyebolt through the center of the 1" rubber bung that used to live there, anchored with a fender washer on the outside. This looked great and was good and secure... Unfortunately even with the bolt trimmed just proud of the nut, the combination is enough to foul the rudder as it's lowered onto the pintles. I see from Bosun's Supply I can buy a pan-headed SS machine screw and also a threaded loop for the inboard end, which I'm hoping will solve the problem. Then it will be removeable, in the right place, waterproof, and have avoided any unnecessary new holes in the boat (which already has enough water intrusion issues!)

+

Once I have real hardware, I may replace the line with nylon strapping and a ratchet... although honestly, the pool noodles are very, very comfortable over the lines, and they look fine. When the line is taut, it is positioned just right to lay across my ankles as I curl my toes over the trunk, hiked out for dear life. Since neither end is actually anchored to the sole of the cockpit, but rather slightly above, it is easy to slide feet under them, but so far I have not tripped on them.

Luke

[talbot]

Nice. Elegant and simple.
One thing I didn't mention about my more-complicated system is that at the same time I was installing hiking straps, I was on a campaign to make the boat capsize-survivable. That included making the cabin waterproof (sealing hatch, sealing mast step, sealing CB through-hulls, etc.). So one constraint for me was that I had to be able to keep the bulkhead drain holes clear to accept sealing plugs. And, of course, the same was true for the cockpit drain.

Unfortunately, as people have noted, those cuddy drains are in exactly the right place for attaching hiking straps. Hence the footman's loops, which are supersized eyestraps that can span the drain hole, allowing the plug to be inserted from inside.

Anyone have problems slipping out of straps that are threaded through pool noodles? I took the noodles off my straps because I felt more stable without them, and the straps took up less room. But there are other problems. The straps really cut into the tops of your feet. Even aqua sox are too light. Running shoes are marginal. I ended up buying specialized Gill boots with reinforced tops for hiking. (Why pay $4 for functional hiking straps when you can spend $100 on specialized stainless fittings and neoprene footwear?)

[ChrisB]

I was on a campaign to make the boat capsize-survivable.

Talbot,

I am interested in the cuddy hatch you made. I want to make one for my DS II also. I'm assuming it's marine plywood, correct? How did you attach it to the bulkhead of the cuddy? Any weatherstripping, foam, etc on the mating surfaces to further seal out water? What do you have mounted on the (outside of the) hatch?

Chris B

[talbot]

Sure. Here are the pix. Know that:
1. This was supposed to be a prototype. Six or seven years ago. Maybe I'll get around to making the "real" hatch one day.
2. I used marine plywood from Lowe's. Since then, local boat hobbyists have told me the wood is obviously fir, and not what a real boatbuilder would use. Apparently the only professional grade marine plywood on the west coast comes from a single plant in Tacoma, WA. The locals said that for a hatch, I might get better results from using top-grade exterior construction plywood. (After all, the hatch doesn't have any more water contact that the shutters on a house. At least, as long as boat is right side up.)
3. I varnished the hatch originally. Now I would use West epoxy with its clear hardener. Then varnish over for UV protection.
4. The hatch itself is 1/4" thick and the rim that fits inside the cuddy opening is 1/2", and there is an extra piece supporting each of the three dogs, plus another flange that fits over the bottom lip of the opening, making the whole monster unreasonably heavy. Note the pathetic lightening holes drilled in the inner surface.
5. The lower corner is a weak point. The bulkhead is somewhat convex, so the hatch is tight on top, but springs away from the bulkhead at the bottom. Hence that big lip. Note the small photo of the corner. The hatch tape goes from sealing the inside surface of the hatch to sealing the bottom surface of the rim. I have not found a way to do that transition and make it last all summer. You can see that the upper piece of tape has torn away from the joint, leaving an unsealed space.
6. The latches come from Marine Parts Depot. They turn to fasten against small oak blocks inside the bulkhead. Those are held in place with glue and the same screws that anchor my Barber lead cleats (see earlier cockpit picture). Speaking of which, the things hanging on the hatch in that photo are a solar charger (removed when underway) and the bag that holds my halyard tails.
7. I think a better way to make a hatch would be to bend a thin sheet of plywood to the exact profile of the bulkhead, then reinforce it with strategically placed hardwood strips, avoiding the massive thickness of the inner rim. Add two more latches on the lower surface. Use a continuous foam tape on the inside surface, joining the ends with silicone. Factory hatches on newer Day Sailers hinge at the top, but I wanted to be able to take the thing completely off in gentle weather when we don't need it.

DSII Hatch Cockpit Surface

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DSII Hatch Cuddy Surface

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DSII Hatch Lower Corner

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[ChrisB]

Lightweight, perhaps not but definitely well constructed. In the cockpit photo from your earlier post, there are what look to be four bolt heads on either side of the hatch. They are arranged in a more or less vertical pattern on the cuddy bulkhead. Are these related to the hatch or something else?

[talbot]

Ah, yes. My 1973 Day Sailer II looks like it was itself a mockup for a boat that O'Day hadn't quite finished planning. The bulkhead was poorly finished, and it was not only curved, but curved differently on either side of the cuddy opening. I took two oak strips, put them on edge, and bolted them to either side of the opening, forcing the bulkhead as flat as possible without cracking the fiberglass. I did that before I measured for the hatch.

Basically, any time I mount anything on this boat that requires a flat surface (inspection ports, compass, etc.) I have to shim and/or shape to complete the job. And any paired features (e.g., port and starboard thwarts, port and starboard running light openings) have to be independently measured and cut for each side, because nothing on the boat is symmetrical. I should have named the boat "Learning Experience," or maybe "Object Lesson."

[ChrisB]

Things that make ya' go, hmmmmmmmmmm.

Can't say I've noticed that on my boat, but then again I've never held a straightedge against the cuddy bulkhead. Seems like that might be a good starting point for the project. I saw a DS II for sale recently that used hatch boards, much like the companionway of a cruising boat with a cabin. He had plywood panels bolted to the cuddy bulkhead all the way to the coaming on both sides. The vertical pieces that formed the rails holding the boards in place were attached to the plywood. I couldn't figure out why he'd done it that way but maybe he had similar issues with the cuddy bulkhead. Thanks for all the info.

Chris

[ChrisB]

Incidentally, I have yet to be on a boat that couldn't very accurately be named "Learning Experience"!

[Skippa]

Looking for some input on my developing plan for hiking straps on my DS II. I am thinking of using Talbots plan with the major difference being using eye bolts thru bolted in the transom, just above the water line. From the eye bolts I am thinking 1/4 in or so line run to "D" rings sewn into 1.5 inch nylon webbing from Strapworks. (or somewhere similar) I like Talbots use of "footstraps" thru bolted on the bulkhead at or near the cuddy drain holes. Sliders and friction buckles will make removal simple.
The questions that arise to me are.... is 1.5 in webbing suitable? Any thoughts on mounting the eyebolts thru the transom? And is nylon the better choice over polyester, I am concerned about poly's durability with exposer to UV.
I have a feeling someone else has done this before so I can benefit from their experience.
Thanks.
Kevin

[talbot]

Eyebolt through transom is another common way to do this. Use a big fender washer to distribute the load. You could also attach an internal gudgeon to the same bolts that hold on the lower rudder gudgeon, and avoid drilling any more holes in the transom. Over the long term, water gets into transoms and the wood core rots out. It's one of those things that might convince a person to turn a boat into a planter. The fewer opportunities you give water to penetrate the transom, the better.

Do NOT use nylon for hiking straps. Nylon degrades rapidly in sunlight, and it stretches. Neither quality is good for hiking straps. (Generally the only nylon lines on boats are dock lines and anchor rode, the thought being that the shock-absorbing nature of nylon outweighs its disadvantages.)

I have always used 2" for hiking straps, but some small boats (Lasers) have 1.5" straps as standard equipment. Make sure you can find the sliders, D-rings, and friction buckles you need for the smaller size.