Cuddy door latch

[Shagbark]

I'm new to the ds so please excuse my ignorance. My new (to me) dsII did not come with a cuddy door. I would like to fabricate my own but I'm not sure what type of latching mechanism to use to keep it in place. What did the original doors have and has anyone improved on it? I plan on attaching mesh bags to the doors for halyard tails.

[TIM WEBB]

Welcome to the boat and the group!

Wow - there are lots of ways to "skin that cat". I'm not even sure if any DS2's came with cuddy doors originally. One of the solutions that comes to mind is the one Talbot did:



I believe he has a "lip" at the bottom, and two turning latches at the upper corners. Good luck!

[GreenLake]

I don't have a DS2, but one design consideration would be ease of access for stuff that you will need while underway. A hatch can serve a useful function of keeping your stuff in the boat during a capsize, but only if you keep it shut. And to make that practical you may want to set it up so that you can open a portion of the hatch .. in addition to having nets or bins on the non-opening part to stash stuff that's waterproof (or doesn't need to be protected but is used frequently). The other design consideration would be ease of latching. Whatever you build, the less "fiddly" it is to mount or latch, the happier you'll be with it (as long as it does latch!).

Toggles are OK to latch the "fixed" part, but I would look for a "push to shut" latch like they are used for the cabinets on a larger boat for the part of the hatch that you want to open frequently.

[jeadstx]

My DS II has a set of the original teak plywood hatch covers similar to the ones D&R Marine sells. They might originally have been sold as an accessory. They attach using a "L" shaped piece of wood that fits over the lip. The port side has two along the bottom, and one in the upper corner. The port hatch is put on first. The starboard hatch has two along the bottom and a latch tab on top for a lock. I still use this cover, but mainly when the boat is on the trailer.


For cruising I built a hatch cover that would allow me to keep the cover in place while sailing, but be able to open the top part to access stuff in the cuddy cabin. I capsized a few years ago with this hatch cover and everything that was in the cuddy cabin stayed there 9and there was a lot of stuff in there. I used the same attachment method as the original hatch, except on the hinged part I made the brackets swivel to lock it closed. Attached are the hatches as original built and a general drawing. I have since relaced the compass with a bulkhead type.



John

[Shagbark]

John,

That's exactly what I had in mind. For the top part that can open during a sail, what did you use as the latch? Available at home stores? Also, it looks like your hinge is a "piano hinge', how does it hold up against the elements?

[GreenLake]

From John's drawing it appears he skipped a latch and just "locks" the top by having an fixed eye that pokes through a slot and then allows as lock (or carabiner) to hold the top part closed,

[jeadstx]

As far as latching goes, pretty much what Greenlake observed from the picture. You can see on the original hatch where the lock attaches. There is a lock tang (for lack of a better word) that protrudes thru the hatch at that point (see slot on upper edge of drawing). I can use either a carbineer hook or a lock when I need it secure. Most of the time it will just stay closed putting the hatch slot over the tang while sailing. Originally I would put the carbineer on it, but soon got tired of removing it all the time. Now I usually just put my camera lanyard thru the tang while sailing and the hatch still stays closed when I put it over it. It would be advisable if you use a latching system like I have to use a metal (SS or aluminum) backing plate on the inside. The original hatch was made from 1/2" teak plywood, my hatch I made using marine plywood.

As for the hinge, yes that is a piano hinge. The original one I got was brass (as seen in the picture). Thought it would look good, and it did. Wasn't really brass tho, just brass plated steel. After a week exposed to salt water on the Texas coast however it didn't hold up to well. It worked while sailing during the week as it was constantly moving, but after sitting on the trailer for a week afterwards it started to rust badly. I the replaced it with SS piano hinge. Fortunately the hole pattern was the same as the old hinge. The stainless has held up very well and has been in salt water several times. One note, if using piano hinge, the hinge does not extend all the way to the edges since the hatch cover extends a inch or so beyond the opening edge. I also got new molding for around the edge of the opening from D&R Marine to help with the seal (my originals were bad).

John

[Shagbark]

I'm missing the tang protruding from the cuddy. I wIll need to fabricate something, maybe fiberglass in a L shaped tang on the inside of the cuddy. Like you idea though, especially since it can be locked when I'm away.

[GreenLake]

I think it's called a padeye and would look something like this:

3705-0.jpg (9.6 KiB) Viewed 16895 times

[Shagbark]

Perfect! Think I got it planned out now. 1/4 in marine grade plywood, ss piano hinge, padeye and multiple layers of sealant. Thanks for all the info. Now to just head out into the snow and start cutting....

Jim

[jeadstx]

What Greenlake shows for the lock would work well.

I made a mistake by using 1/4" marine plywood. 3/8" to 1/2" would be better. I used 1/4" and have found it to be to light weight. At some point I will rebuild the hatch with 3/8" to 1/2" marine plywood. There is a plastic material called "Starboard" that would make a good low maintenance hatch. With Starboard 1/4" would work as it is strong material. http://www.boatoutfitters.com/king-star ... PAodI1AA0Q

John

[GreenLake]

It's easy to make a hatch too heavy. 1/4" is plenty strong enough for the purpose, but may not be stiff enough around the edges. Gluing even very narrow strips of 1/4" (plywood or other wood) around the perimeter (or perhaps somewhat offset from the perimeter to fit inside the opening) would stiffen up the panels tremendously, but with very little cost in terms of extra weight. I would likewise reinforce the area where the piano hinge attaches.

Should there be an issue with flex in the panels even with reinforced rims, I would glue a partial length of 1x1 on the middle of the back side of each part (with the ends tapered). After that I wouldn't imagine any further problems. You should try stiffening up your existing cover like that, before rebuilding one from scratch.

For finishing, if you can seal all the wood (after making all cuts and drilling all holes) on all sides with epoxy, it will prove a solid base on which to apply top coat or even spray paint (experiment with the paint and primer of your choice on a spare piece of epoxy covered plywood first). The epoxy will preserve the wood and the paint will do a better job keeping the UV away from the epoxy than varnish. Possibly looks better on a DSII because the boat otherwise has no wooden accents.

[jeadstx]

The original hatches are 3/8" thick (I originally posted that it was 1/2", re-checked it) teak plywood. I just think after 6 years experience with the hatch cover that 1/4" is too lite. you add weight and joints putting on re-enforcement. I would recommend 3/8" thick material.

John

[GreenLake]

John,

the reason to consider reinforcement strips in selected locations on the inside is that the strength increases disproportionately. You find that principle applied everywhere, from door blades to I-beams.

That said, if 3/8" is sufficiently strong, that's probably not worth the additional effort, although I bet that a hatch from 1/4" panels with 1/4" reinforcement strips at the correct locations could be stronger (= stiffer) than a 3/8" panel while being substantially lighter; that's because the reinforced areas would have a combined thickness of 1/2", and stiffness increases faster than linear with depth. The same effect means that the reinforcement strips don't have to be very wide to be effective.

If you instead of 1/4" plywood used a few lengths of 1x1's as reinforcement, the effect of the additional depth would be even more pronounced. Done correctly, the panels would probably bend far less than 3/8" plywood.

The one measure in which a 1/4" panel would show limitations is on resistance to puncture. However, I don't see that as an issue for a vertically attached hatch, unless you fear you are going to put your elbow through one .

Of course, if saving weight was the primary concern, I'd go with a panel laid up from carbon fiber.

As you suggest, using a simple 3/8" panel might just be good enough for the purpose.

[Shagbark]

Aesthetically, I blieve teak would be the best choice. However, teak isn't offered down at my local Lowes/Home Depot stores, even marine grade plywood is hard to find. Maybe it's the curse of being in Indiana.