Going to look at a 1975 DSII

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Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jsbowman6 » Thu May 26, 2016 8:28 pm

I've had an O'Day 22 since 1985, but know little of the smaller boats. What should I look for when inspecting this boat? It has a later than 1975 tilt trailer. It has 2 year old sails (not O'Day). But has the old sails as well. Is there anywhere that rot can take place?
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jeadstx » Fri May 27, 2016 1:46 am

The only place where "rot" may occur would be in backing plates where hardware is installed, easily repairable however and does not compromise the boat. I had to replace the wood backing plates on my jib tracks (located on inside of the rails near the cuddy cabin bulkhead). I installed an inspection port to redo the tracks on each side.

If the auto bailer is original (bronze) it might need replacing. A 1975 boat will have a centerboard bolt, accessible thru the cockpit inspection ports at the forward end of the cockpit near the cuddy cabin bulkhead. Check the shrouds/stays and running rigging. The original shrouds/stays were 3/32" wire, the upgraded ones are 1/8". Check the sheaves in the blocks for wear. Check mast and boom. Tilt trailers are common. Since you have an O'Day 22 you are probably already familiar with D&R Marine, they have all the parts for the Day Sailers (I, II, & III). Of course, since Cape Cod Shipbuilding is the current builder of the Day Sailer they have parts as well.

Check the condition of the sails. I would think that 2 year old sails should be in good shape (my Intensity Sails are three years old now).

I'm sure others will chime in with other things to look at.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 27, 2016 5:21 am

As John wrote, on these boats, most things are fixable with moderate time/effort - some defects are a reason to haggle a bit more, but not necessarily a reason to walk, unless you really need a ready-to-sail boat.

A few issue require more intensive/costly repairs or are effectively something you'd have to live with. (Or if you accept them, know that you need to fix the boat before you can sail it, even if the fix isn't especially costly).

Check for hull deformation based on wrong storage (shallow dents from narrow bunks / trailer rollers). Also check whether laminate is soft near these supports.
Remedy is involved, tricky and not necessarily always successful.

Mast: make sure it's straight and the correct length (25' as measured from the keelson, not from the deck). Ditto for the boom (straightness - booms are less likely to have been cut because of prior damage). A deflection in the mast of, say, less than 1" measured at the tip, due a shallow bend would be something you could live with as is, anything more, esp. hard kinks are tricky. Deeper bends, if shallow, may be repairable, but sometimes people snap their mast trying to do that.

Deck/hull separation. If near the font, may indicate a problem with the anchoring of the forestay. Fixable by making an inspection port in the deck and working through that. BUT: don't sail the boat w/o a fix. Other areas: can be re-glued/re-sealed with moderate effort.

Chain plates: any sign of them pulling out/through: fixable, but do not sail the boat until done.

Large cracks/soft spots in laminate. If localized, can be fixed with good outcome. (Small cracks/crazing are/is generally cosmetic on these boats.)

Standing rigging: wires, rivets, etc. Kinks in wires, split wires: replace with new set. Check tangs and rivets. Fix any issues before sailing. Mast sheaves: easy to replace, minor.

Running rigging: all running rigging is a consumable - you will need to replace all of it over time, so it's like tires on a use car. In good shape justifies a bit higher price, in bad shape, haggle more. (Sails the same - some people will by new sails more often than running rigging (racers) other less often (cruisers) you get the idea).

Foils: if free of obvious damage, fine. If structural cracks/bent they need to be replaced or rebuilt. If chipped/surface cracks should be faired & painted. Moderate effort and not needed before your test sail. Check rudder gudgeons/pinions for signs of grounding (bent). Easy fix.

Check tiller for cracks and how soon you'll need to refinish it. Give demerit points based on that - any structural cracks: fix before taking out the boat.

On a DSII you'll eventually want to review/fix up and downhaul, but that's a given on these boats - if the one you're looking at had all the aftermarket fixes done and done well, you're lucky. I think it's hard to tell from an inspection, because issues involve how much water can leak where during certain types of sailing. That said, anytime you can test-sail a boat you are better off; if not be sure to take someone experienced with you on the maiden voyage to help handle the stuff that inevitably breaks...

Good luck. Generally, these boats are eminently repairable, so not much is a true issue to walk away from, except to minimize the needed effort before you can take her out the first time. Enjoy!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jsbowman6 » Fri May 27, 2016 7:18 am

Folks, thanks for the list of items to check.
Is delamanation easy to find? I had blisters on the oday 22 and of course they were easy enough, is other types as easy to see?

With that, Greenlake, I have a couple of questions. When you said "downhaul" do you mean overhaul? Lastly what are the "foils" on the DSII?

Here's the boat I'm going to see/buy: https://gadsden.craigslist.org/boa/5564190718.html. I already have a honda 2 hp long shaft engine, so most likely will not take the Suzuki engine, which will knock $400 off the price. The boat is a 2 owner, the current on has had it 5 years. He has other sailboats as well. It's never been painted, which I consider a plus toward inspection. I'll make a point to test sail the boat. I feel it's a plus to have 2 year old sails.
Again thank you so much for your responses. I've been out of sailing for 13 years and am excited to get back into it.
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby klb67 » Fri May 27, 2016 9:53 am

I think Greenlake was referring to the uphaul and downhaul for the centerboard. They can be a bit finicky on a DS and a source of the centerboard jamming. He covered all of the points to look at. Definitely open the inspection ports on either side of the centerboard trunk and inspect the ends of the bolt (hopefully they are clean - if so, the bolt and washers are easily replaced if needed). The bilge should be reasonably dry.

The foils are the centerboard and the rudder. The latter is easy to inspect, of course. The CB you won't be able to see much other than the leading edge if you crawl under the boat.

The boat looks to be in pretty good shape. The halyards look like they have been replaced at some point, although the main halyard may still have wire? I don't see too many bumps and bruises on the hull in the pics. I speculate that the bilge drain has been replaced based on the pic that shows the transom.

I can't see a bow eye and wonder if it got pulled out. You can install an inspection plate in the front of the cuddy to access that. There is some extra hardware on top of the cuddy - not sure what for. Price seems to be decent with the motor and good trailer. Maybe some bargaining room. Good luck.
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby DigitalMechanic » Fri May 27, 2016 7:36 pm

For the price these boats go for, boat ownership is a bargain. And the boat is very fun to sail. I only began sailing about a year ago, so the first step for me was actually acquiring a boat. Well, I had sailed as a "ride along" a few times on bigger sailboats, which actually led me to fall in love with the idea of sailing... And also got in my head that I would never be able to afford to be a sailor... but that is another story. When I got my boat, little did I know what I was in for, but honestly I expected "uncertainty" when purchasing a 40 year old boat for little more than $1k, with little to no experience. I had about 6 months of sea trials before I had a working prototype (both boat and sailor), but it was fun learning. In my head this was the agenda...

1. Aquire boat (break the ice, lol)
2. Learn to fix boat and motor (yes this came before learn to sail)
3. Learn to sail boat
4. Make boat more fun to sail
5. Add luxuries to boat such as potty, beer holsters, electronics/gizmos holders, fancy sailing PFDs, nav lights, etc. (I think I still owe GL a night sail and some pics)

Anyway, at the end of the day what I really ended up purchasing was a hull and some spars... and everything else whether is is functional or not... has been updated and/or reconfigured. Yes, I could have left "well enough" alone in many cases, but I had too much fun learning and working on the boat to stop myself. And the projects that you do to a boat this size are not only creative, but relatively inexpensive in comparison that that of a larger boat, and in my experience very rewarding to accomplish implementation of a change that worked (though several had a few revisions). Anyways, what I think I am saying is... if you like projects and are willing to spend a little coin here and there, I would go for it if the hull and spars looked good. You will probably find out that you will make many modifications to suit you and your sailing style.

Honestly, the worst deal that I got out of my purchase was the trailer... which is my current project. But the trailer for "your boat" looks like a nice one ;)
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby GreenLake » Sat May 28, 2016 5:07 am

"foils" is a generic term for both rudder blade and centerboard. (Like wings on an airplane are airfoils, in that sense).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby GreenLake » Sat May 28, 2016 5:10 am

DigitalMechanic wrote: In my head this was the agenda...

1. Acquire boat (break the ice, lol)
2. Learn to fix boat and motor (yes this came before learn to sail)
3. Learn to sail boat
4. Make boat more fun to sail
5. Add luxuries to boat such as potty, beer holsters, electronics/gizmos holders, fancy sailing PFDs, nav lights, etc. (I think I still owe GL a night sail and some pics)

Very nice agenda. Under 6 add: equip with cannons, like so:
832
and then you are ready for anything!

Looking forward to descriptions and pictures of night sails, but in some other thread.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jsbowman6 » Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 am

GreenLake wrote:"foils" is a generic term for both rudder blade and centerboard. (Like wings on an airplane are airfoils, in that sense).


Thanks GreenLake. That makes sense, had not thought of them from that direction. I've sailed for about 30 years, but have never been in a small boat like this one. The closest was a catamaran down in Fl. It looks to be less trouble storing and easier to deal with getting it in and out of the water. I took your comments and turned them into a checklist and intend to use that during the inspection today.
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby DigitalMechanic » Sat May 28, 2016 10:20 am

GreenLake wrote:
DigitalMechanic wrote: In my head this was the agenda...

1. Acquire boat (break the ice, lol)
2. Learn to fix boat and motor (yes this came before learn to sail)
3. Learn to sail boat
4. Make boat more fun to sail
5. Add luxuries to boat such as potty, beer holsters, electronics/gizmos holders, fancy sailing PFDs, nav lights, etc. (I think I still owe GL a night sail and some pics)

Very nice agenda. Under 6 add: equip with cannons, like so:
832
and then you are ready for anything!

Looking forward to descriptions and pictures of night sails, but in some other thread.


Dang it GL, now I have another project... lol. Anyone have literature on installing USCG approved cannons? Or do you just need to have the right hat?
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jeadstx » Sat May 28, 2016 6:59 pm

Muzzle loading cannons are not classified as firearms Greenlake, I think you are OK.

jsbowman6, the delamination that was mentioned is along the hull deck joint seam. The hull deck joint on a DS II is a "U" shaped lip. The outer edge sometimes has some separation showing, but does not necessarily mean the hull and deck are separating. The separation can be sealed using 3M 5200.

I've sailed my 1976 DS II with this condition for 10 years since in my case I have no leaks along there. In the last year or so I have put 3M 5200 in the area of separation as a precaution. The area where my boat has the delamination is from about a foot aft of the bow along about 4 feet on each side intermittently, with most on the starboard side. In my case, the previous owner had tried riveting it back together which was probably the wrong thing to do. Sealing it is better.

The boat you show looks to be in good shape. I paid $1200 for my 1976 DS II in 2006, so the price is right (to me at least). Most work I do on my boat is not because It needs it, but rather because I enjoy messing around with it. Sailors tend to like to improve and mess with their boats.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jsbowman6 » Sat May 28, 2016 9:33 pm

Went and picked up the boat today. I took the checklist you guys made and used to to go over the boat. Worked very well. I didn't want the motor and he took $150 off for little problems found, so the total with trailer was $650. I hope that's a decent price. He gave me a great new main sheet along with the old one and the old sails. Also got a new set of spreaders for the mast. We sailed it and except for taking on water through the top drain hole.......which I guess???? should have a plug in it. We stuck a tapered wooden handle in it and that took care of it.
Looks like my Ferris mower will be able to handle putting it in the water at my ramp.
Here's some direction I need now.
Where can I find a little wind vane for it?
How does the "self bailer" work, if that's the cruddy metal plug thing in the bottom hole. Where does the water go for it and should and how is it modified?
Thanks Josh
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jeadstx » Sun May 29, 2016 2:41 am

I think what you paid is a great price. Now that you have it, you'll want to know where to get stuff if you should need it. D&R Marine has all the parts you may need and is the best place to go for parts http://www.drmarine.com/categories.asp?cat=60. Cape Cod Shipbuilding is the current builder and will have parts also. As far as a Wind vane, Duckworks just started selling the Davis vane at a good price. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/spar-fly/index.htm I ordered one on a Sunday evening (online) and had it by Tuesday. D&R Marine has the replacement part for the bailer. I bought the part myself a couple years ago, but haven't installed it yet, still sail with a rubber plug in there.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby itguy1010 » Sun May 29, 2016 9:38 am

I like this one. D&R is awesome for Oday parts but saving $10 is my preference.

http://www.amazon.com/Davis-Instruments ... ndex+sport
Eric White
The "Jackie Beck"
73 DSII #6428
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Re: Going to look at a 1975 DSII

Postby jsbowman6 » Sun May 29, 2016 2:15 pm

Thanks for all the info. How do you get the aluminum plug out of the self bailing housing? I managed to get it loose and can move it up about 3/8" of an inch, but am afraid to pull on it hard. If it had threads they don't seem to exist now. I'm a little afraid to put it in the water until I figure this out. Moving down from a 22' boat, where all holes are above water line to this one is a learning curve.
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