DaySailer.org Forum

These are different designs. My original sail did not have a luff wire, so I know the difference. The one in the picture is missing the lashing.

Talbot,

I guess I should've looked back to see where this discussion started. My bad.

Ooops. Ive been attaching the grommet to the jib DH.

So let me get this straight. I should connect the grommet to the loop in the wire luff with some cordage, then do I attach the wire luff to the stemhead or the DH?

Yes, that is my thought. Consider this: How is the sail attached at the peak? The strain at the peak and the strain at the luff should be approximately equal, right? (That's not a rhetorical question. If it's not true, I'm sure Greenlake will advise us.) My point is, if the halyard shackle at the peak was deemed by the sailmaker to require a wire loop, the shackle at the tack should be something just as strong--presumably (as per your photo), the other end of the same wire.

Another consideration is, does the jib creep on the wire after it is hoisted? If so, that indicates the grommet was intended for a Cunningham, a secondary line that tensions the leading edge of the sail (even though most of us get all the tension we need out of the halyard).

You know, a lot of Day Sailer mainsails also come with a Cunningham grommet, even though the luff tension on that sail is usually handled by the main downhaul on a sliding gooseneck. That just seems to be a built-in option.

These extra grommets might have to do with racing, where the exact dimensions of a sail (including height above deck) are specified in class rules. So sails have to be hoisted to a precise mark. That might be one reason to have a Cunningham even if mechanically it's not necessary. It separates the function of raising a sail from the tensioning of the fabric.

Jeez, what a lot of talk. I'm temped to play hookey tomorrow and go sailing.

windwalker wrote:Ooops. Ive been attaching the grommet to the jib DH.

So let me get this straight. I should connect the grommet to the loop in the wire luff with some cordage, then do I attach the wire luff to the stemhead or the DH?

Wire luff would be attached to the stemhead.

There are two uses of a downhaul. Common one is to attach DH to the top of the jib, to be able to pull it down when it's time to douse it, esp. if there's some wind blowing that may make it not want to come down just by its weight.

In principle, a DH could also be rigged like a cunningham on a main, that is to allow fine tuning of the tension in the luff fabric. However, the way I understood my sailmaker was that this is not needed, and just setting the cordage to the correct length should work.

At the top of the jib, there should be a similar eye in the wire luff and a similar grommet in the sail. (There is on my sail). They get connected with a similar lashing,

The length of the fabric luff + 2 lashings is less than the distance from eye to eye on the wire luff, presumably because the luff will stretch more under tension than the wire. About 1-2" shorter, judging from the looks of it (with the sail rolled up, if that makes a difference).

windwalker wrote:Also what are these for? Just forward of the chainplates, the black part is rubber.

Those are used when flying a spinnaker, I was never sure exactly how to use them on my Widgeon, so someone with more spinnaker experience than I is welcome to correct me as to which line goes through them and the correct terminology of the guy vs sheet. Anyway, I would clip the guy line (line that controlled corner (tack?) of spinnaker running through pole end) through the clip like this on that side and let other side (clew?) just run from spinnaker aft to the block near the stern and forward to the cleat on that side. When I jibed the spinnaker the setup reversed.

I can fly a spinnaker OK, but never really have learned the correct terms for all the spinnaker rigging (despite over 40years of sailing experience, 9 years with a spinnaker!) I don't have one on my DS II, I sail either alone or with my 79 year-old Dad, so spinnaker handling would be dicey on my DS II. The Widgeon was small enough that I could set and douse the chute solo (being younger in those days helped, I was 24 when I bought the Widgeon, 32 when I sold her).

Anyway, I hope I cleared up what those fittings are for, even if my spinnaker terminology may be off. I'll attach a picture of a Widgeon under spinnaker (not mine) that sort-of shows how those clips are used, and it does seem to show that I set my spinnaker correct, whether I have the terms correct or not, at least I did set it correctly.

I think the clip doohickey is called a "Twinger." And yes, it is used to keep the spinnaker guy angling down instead of aft. On an Olson 25 I crew on, both spinnaker sheets run through twingers, but the twingers are blocks attached to leads. Like Barber leads, but fore and aft, instead of athwartship. Necessary on a 25' boat because the crew can't reach that far forward from the cockpit.
'

GreenLake wrote:

windwalker wrote:Ooops. Ive been attaching the grommet to the jib DH.

So let me get this straight. I should connect the grommet to the loop in the wire luff with some cordage, then do I attach the wire luff to the stemhead or the DH?

Wire luff would be attached to the stemhead.

There are two uses of a downhaul. Common one is to attach DH to the top of the jib, to be able to pull it down when it's time to douse it, esp. if there's some wind blowing that may make it not want to come down just by its weight.

In principle, a DH could also be rigged like a cunningham on a main, that is to allow fine tuning of the tension in the luff fabric. However, the way I understood my sailmaker was that this is not needed, and just setting the cordage to the correct length should work.

At the top of the jib, there should be a similar eye in the wire luff and a similar grommet in the sail. (There is on my sail). They get connected with a similar lashing,

The length of the fabric luff + 2 lashings is less than the distance from eye to eye on the wire luff, presumably because the luff will stretch more under tension than the wire. About 1-2" shorter, judging from the looks of it (with the sail rolled up, if that makes a difference).

Yes there is a grommet at the top and it is lashed to the wire luff. Maybe I am calling the jib DH when in fact it really isn't. There is a cable that comes through the deck directly behind the stemhead and is set up with a 2:1 system in the cuddy where it switches to rope. The rope exits the deck at the cockpit. There is only a short range of adjustment. So what I have been doing is pulling the halyard up tight and then tensioning with What I'm calling the DH. So if I use some cordage and attach the grommet to the wire luff then attach that to the stemhead I would tension the jib with the halyard. So then the thing I'm calling the DH would be of no use?

The 2:1 and short range of adjustment is a sign that this is meant for tensioning. It would allow you to play with the tension while under way, while the system on my sail is "fixed" and "one-size fits all". Just make sure you are not trying to make up for lacking tension in the wire luff, that should be adequately tensioned with the halyard.

Sounds like this boat was set up by a serious racer.

Ok, I went back and looked at the pictures in the beginning so I will chime back in here. With the added information that you just provided, I see that you can tension the rig with the halyard, especially if you use extra purchase. This way you can easily vary the tension on your rig for mast bend and jib sag. So, the wire would be attached to the stemhead. This is not an unusual set up for racing dinghies including the 420. The grommet would be attached to your down haul or your "jib Cunningham" to separately tension the luff of your jib therefore adjusting draft in your jib.

talbot wrote:Sounds like this boat was set up by a serious racer.

Yeah there are all sorts of things I cant seem to find a use for. Someday we may find our way to a race, but as of now we are getting along just fine on some overnight camping trips

Oh,yeah. Why is it sunsets are more beautiful when viewed through the silhouette of a boat's rigging? Maybe it's an acquired taste.

Nice picture.

Do you use your spinnaker?

I didn't until I joined a friendly group of racers who politely insisted that all of us would have more fun if I could sail a bit faster on the downwind legs... I now tend to use it for cruising as well, esp. in moderate or light winds. Even been known to fly it single-handed.

The little clips that you have would seem to solve a real problem, wish I had known about them. (Only knew the big-boat solution running lines with snatch-blocks, which is too complicated).

So, if you are not flying your spinnaker yet, add it to your list of things to try. Getting some movement out of the boat in conditions where it otherwise seems to just sit in the water is fun, even when you are not trying to race.

The boat seems to be rigged for a spinnaker, however, one did not come with the purchase. Where would one look to find one? Are they boat specific, or basic sizes? I've ordered a few parts from DR Marine and don't see any listing for spinnakers.

Thanks