DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bit!

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DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bit!

Postby seabisquit » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:22 pm

I'm still a new sailor but I'm not bad at all if I may say so. It's my second summer and between my daughter I and we've trailered and sailed dozens of times on all kinds of water. Now with that said we left Dallas for a nice dad and daughter weekend at Canyon Lake here in Texas - hot and clear, and the wind did not cooperate.

1978 DSII, still in decent shape, super dry boat (never more than a drop if any out of the bilge) and lots of fun. We have a fast setup routine and everything is covered and double checked, and always with spare rigging parts and plugs and all safety gear and items.

We headed out no problem, had lots of fun rounding buoys and getting a feel for the lake and wind before we took off across the lake for fun at an island I always take my family to on the houseboat or ski boat, so getting there in light wind was not as fast as I would like

We anchored very shallow, had a ball hanging out and swimming. It was light wind but giant rough water thanks to massive amounts of slow lumbering wake boats and close fly bys by jet skis, so when I saw water in the boat I thought it was just waves. That changed when sponging the water out didn't ever stop. Hopped in, said "what the heck!?" and saw water coming into cubby from the cable hole on the centerboard haul.

Opened an inspection port and was shocked to see water pour into cockpit. closed it up and said “hop in we gotta go now!” The thought was that maybe the giant waves had made us slam into rock close to shore and there may be a crack.

Fired up the kicker and started bailing, pulled the mainsail down and stuffed it in the cuddy and started the run to the ramp - water coming in through cable hole about as fast a weak elementary school water fountain, we were able to bail out at the same speed so we kept on rolling back to ramp as fast as a 2HP Yamaha will push - while pushing the rudder down to full down position, we noticed the bottom plug was gone - great. We had a spare plug, a it was a quick bit of relief thinking that's pretty much the problem and not a crack, the relief was short lived because it was time to get back to the task at hand.

Boat so low now that the stream of water coming from cable hole picked up pace - a nice family came along and offered a tow and we accepted Before the tow we were pretty much lumbering along and bailing, and were very confident that we would have eventually made it to ramp by ourselves, the wake boats that buzzed by paid no attention to a small sail boat low in water and a father and daughter bailing water - so we would have a few big wakes come over the side (sigh) .

Short story even longer, we got to the ramp - cranked it on trailer - my F350 had trouble getting it out (the ramp was steep and wet and I have limited slip) once near the top we pulled the plug, the tires were almost flat and an hour later there was still water coming out - it was 102 degrees and no shade so we used that steady stream of water to keep us wet and cool for a long time

So the question is - why (like my big boats) is there not a screw in plug (brass or plastic) - I'd imagine if I were offshore things could have gotten really hairy, there is NO WAY that a human powered hand pump could get that all that water out without wearing you out, and would take hours.

Second question (really a statement) , once the boat gets low enough in water, water will continuously come in that cable hole into the cockpit

I know now why you guys stuff pool noodles in the bilge! We're gonna do that after it dries out.

It was an adventure, we were actually very proud of ourselves for staying level headed and "Staying Calm and Carrying On", in the end we racked it up to fun because after being a water based family for all these years, we finally got a taste ourselves of what it feels like to fight the water when it wants to come in

This is one sail that we will always remember as dad and daughter -
Last edited by seabisquit on Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I bring nothing to the table.

1978 O'Day Daysailer II - Sea Wing
2001 SeaArk Voyager Houseboat - Serenity NOW!
2001 Crownline LPX - The Dockside
1984 Illusion Mini 12 MK2 15 Foot Sailboat
3 Kayaks, 1 Canoe and an inflatable dinghy :0
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:50 pm

Nicely written up adventure!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby jeadstx » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:01 pm

Nice adventure, speaking as one who has had a bilge full of water a couple times. My boat is stuffed with pool noodles. Capsized in 2012 with a heavily loaded boat. Swamped to the gunnels, but the boat stayed afloat. I have pictures taken by others. You may swamp, but the boat will stay afloat, sailable, more or less.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:04 pm

Once you are full to the gunwales bailing can be impossible, because even small waves will fill the boat faster than you can empty it.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby jsbowman6 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:03 pm

If you look one or two posts back, you'll see where I left the bilge plug out. I sailed for a couple to 3 hours and was very surprised that my boat didn't sink. I only appreciated how much water I took on after pulling it up on the ramp and when I unknowingly uncoupled it, the boat reared up on the rudder!! Water drained like yours for over an hour. Thinking back, I feel the boat was sluggish sailing. However, I did not have a fountain in my cockpit.....yet. I'm thinking because I was mainly moving, in slow winds and was sitting in the back of the boat, mine filled only so far, but it's just a theory.....that I hope not to repeat.
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby jeadstx » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:12 pm

My boat was bailed when it was close to the beach by friends, after the incriminating pictures were taken of course. My trailer was still 25 miles away. Sailing the next day you could feel the remaining water sloshing in the bilge on the way to the trailer.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby seabisquit » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:10 pm

When the waterline hull stripe is below the water (especially the bow portion) - there might be a problem. At 8lbs a gallon, I can only guess at how many gallons/weight comes off these boats if they are filled to bilge brim (50 gallons? more?). Thank goodness for centerboards too. Fun stuff. My bilge is super clean now. There is still some water in there, I'll have to sponge it out

Adios from Texas -
I bring nothing to the table.

1978 O'Day Daysailer II - Sea Wing
2001 SeaArk Voyager Houseboat - Serenity NOW!
2001 Crownline LPX - The Dockside
1984 Illusion Mini 12 MK2 15 Foot Sailboat
3 Kayaks, 1 Canoe and an inflatable dinghy :0
seabisquit
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:10 pm

Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby SUNBIRD » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:51 pm

The bilge drain plug is SUPPOSED to be a screw in type, or at least there was a screw-in plug there when she left the factory as far as I know from what I've seen. My boat has one anyway as does every other DS II that I've seen. If your bilge plug isn't the screw-in type, I would replace it ASAP with a screw-in type (the whole unit, plug and flange is less than $10 at most marine stores, D&R Marine also has them last I checked (where I bought mine).)
sometime in the past a previous owner must have removed it and it got lost.

I learned the hard way to be sure it was screwed in before launching! I keep my boat on a mooring all summer and one year when I launched, I just happened to need something out of the storage compartment that I created in the cuddy floor just forward of the mast....... and wondered why the underside of the lexan shelf/floorboard was wet........ I opened one of the inspection ports and found lots of water (this was at most 15 minutes after launching) That was when I happened to look in the cockpit just forward of my outboard.... and spotted the bilge drain plug! OOPS! Forgot to install that! No real harm, but if I had not checked the bilge before leaving the ramp...... I'd have had a soggy trip to the mooring! I now make REAL sure that I screw in that plug just before painting the bottom, boat is stored for Winter in our garage, so I often screw the plug in long before that as the bilge is obviously dry within a week or so of haulout.
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
1979 DS II, # 10201
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby jeadstx » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:15 am

My plug is the rubber stopper type with the small brass part that folds down to expand it. Drain hole has no threads for a threaded plug (1976 DS II). Normally I have a very dry bilge even when the boat is in the water for several days. In 2012 the water got in the bilge due to a capsize. I do have a few places along the hull deck joint where there are leaks, but only when the boat is on it's side for a while (like during my 2 capsizes since I got the boat in 2006).

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby Interim » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:24 am

At least your plug started out "in." I've sailed off the dock without it in (once). This is an important safety exercise, because now friends and family consistently remind me to put the plug in before setting off. Kind of them. :lol:

I keep a spare bilge plug and cockpit plug in the ice chest (compartment under the port seat) now.

Consolation for me is that everyone I've mentioned this to claims they have forgotten the plug once or twice.

--john
1979 DSII
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby ChrisB » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:15 pm

Seabiscuit,

It must have been THE weekend for swamping Daysailers. I was sleeping in the cockpit aboard mine this weekend, anchored in an island cove when I was awakened at 1:00 am by some loud fishermen on the island. I quickly noticed that the cockpit was filled with water almost to the seats. Pulled the anchor and fired up the OB heading for the beach so I could bail her out. I have one of those tube shaped manual bilge pumps, a bailer made from an old bleach bottle and an old five gallon gasoline jug with the top cut off. This works very well as it has a molded in handle that makes it easier to maneuver. I too was shipping water into the cuddy through the centerboard uphaul. This is due to the fact that the location of that cable (and the hole in the trunk) is not very far above the waterline when the boat is floating at its normal level. Swamp the boat a bit and it's below the water line.

I beached the boat and bailed the cockpit, leaving the bilge for the morning. When the sun came up, I used my tube shaped manual bilge pump to remove the water from the bilge and it took me 30 - 45 minutes). The pump manufacturer says 6 gallons per minute but obviously you can't pump non-stop so my best guess is there was 100 gallons of water in the bilge.

When I finally got home, I found my leak problem to be two fold. First, like you, I don't have a screw in bilge drain plug. It was missing when I bought the boat so I've always use corks. The particular on I used this weekend was a little undersized and didn't seal well. The other, and larger leak, was a crack in transom right at the 90 bend to the bottom of the boat. This was a result of the boat being knocked off the trailer onto the transom and I had put a Marine Tex repair on the crack but it didn't solve the problem.

I've ordered a new bilge drain fitting (with the screw in cap) from D & R Marine, and I have FG resin and cloth to repair, seal, and strengthen the transom to hull joint. The local boatshop was able to salvage my outboard which was inundated right before I made it to the beach on the island.
Chris B.
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby jeadstx » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:21 am

Seabiscuit,

A little off topic, but you said you drove from Dallas to Canyon Lake, and from the sound of it you are familiar with Canyon Lake. I sail Canyon Lake regularly. We now have DS Fleet 135 based at the Hill Country Yacht Club on Canyon Lake (at Canyon Lake Marina). If you want, let us know if your bringing your DS down and maybe we can sail with you in our boats. We can remind each other to put the drain plugs in.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby SUNBIRD » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:02 am

jeadstx wrote:My plug is the rubber stopper type with the small brass part that folds down to expand it. Drain hole has no threads for a threaded plug (1976 DS II). Normally I have a very dry bilge even when the boat is in the water for several days. In 2012 the water got in the bilge due to a capsize. I do have a few places along the hull deck joint where there are leaks, but only when the boat is on it's side for a while (like during my 2 capsizes since I got the boat in 2006).

John

Obviously some previous owner replaced the original plug and flange with a simple rubber, expanding drainplug. I'd replace that ASAP with the proper setup. D&R sells them for $5.75, but you could buy one from a local marine store, it is not O'DAY specific. My drain is on the centerline, but some years O'DAY offset the drain to clear the "catch-basin" at the aft end of the cockpit, mine has a just enough gap under that area of the cockpit (between cockpit and inside of hull) to allow water to drain. The flange uses 2 screws to hold it in and I'd use some marine sealant (NOT 5200!) around it to get a good seal. Screw-in plug has a gasket or o-ring that seals once screwed in.
Attachments
Drain Plug to Drain Inner Hull (2 pc) FITS 1in HOLE.jpg
Bilge drain plug with flange
Drain Plug to Drain Inner Hull (2 pc) FITS 1in HOLE.jpg (1.67 KiB) Viewed 13988 times
Transom drain plugs.JPG
Transom drainplugs on my boat
Transom drain plugs.JPG (12.79 KiB) Viewed 13988 times
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
1979 DS II, # 10201
SUNBIRD
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:05 pm
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby DigitalMechanic » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:42 am

jeadstx wrote:Seabiscuit,

A little off topic, but you said you drove from Dallas to Canyon Lake, and from the sound of it you are familiar with Canyon Lake. I sail Canyon Lake regularly. We now have DS Fleet 135 based at the Hill Country Yacht Club on Canyon Lake (at Canyon Lake Marina). If you want, let us know if your bringing your DS down and maybe we can sail with you in our boats. We can remind each other to put the drain plugs in.

John


Like button pressed :D
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Re: DS II can hold quite a bit of water in bilge, quite a bi

Postby seabisquit » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:28 pm

Sunbird thanks for the clarification - I'll go to West Marine and get a screw in and solve the problem of having the expand type that I currently, from falling off!

Jeadstx, would love to go and hang out. I went by that marina before we left town sunday. I had gone the Army Corp park there and asked the attendant if I could drive through and look at the boat ramp, something I do all the time becasue of my State Park and Army Corp annual passes. He answer was an adamant NO, Day Use pass or not - so my daughter and argued with him for a brief moment and left dejected - "no drive thru's!" We saw at leaset one DS trailer parked on some dusty road by the Marina.

Last weekend we stayed at a cabin at Jacobs creek, just a stone throw from Canyon Lake Marina but we hated that puplic ramp there - anytime there is a "free" ramp, all law, rules, and decorum are thrown out the truck windows - what a mees, thank goodness we launched early.

So next time, I'm renting a primitive campsite at that Army Corp park so I CAN USE THE RAMP!

Would love to sail with folks who have DS boats si I will take you up on that offer. Love it down there - we used be local, with a family farm place in Solms/New Braunfels - would always do a river day then a lake day - can't wait to go back

And a point of clarity - I did put the plug in, it just couldn't handle the awesome speed - we must have been doing at least 5mph :)

Adios from Texas!
I bring nothing to the table.

1978 O'Day Daysailer II - Sea Wing
2001 SeaArk Voyager Houseboat - Serenity NOW!
2001 Crownline LPX - The Dockside
1984 Illusion Mini 12 MK2 15 Foot Sailboat
3 Kayaks, 1 Canoe and an inflatable dinghy :0
seabisquit
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:10 pm

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