Where to start?

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS2. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:17 pm

There's also a whole section on "Sails" in this forum where you can read all about different sail lofts and people's experiences with them as well as other topics about sails for the DS.
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Re: Where to start?

Postby Zinger88 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:29 pm

Sorry for late response. Yes...you can have confidence that the sails from Intensity will fit your DSII. I have a 1976 DSII and they fit just fine. Agree with everything Alan said in regards to what is included. Except mine came with tell-tales attached to the jib and I ordered extras to place on the main.
Jim H
'76 Daysailer II, Sail #7920, Windsong
Burton, TX
~~ _/) ~
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Re: Where to start?

Postby andycayman » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:48 pm

Finally getting back to my DSII project, sorry for the delay... I hate how life gets in the way of all the fun stuff!

I managed to get the bent mast stepped over the weekend. Those with more sailing experience than me have said its a non issue, so no need to try and straighten it - yaay!

On the downside the standing rigging is shot, as are the sails, so fresh rigging coming from Rudy, and a fresh set of main and jib sails from Intensity, three weeks before I get them tho :(

Next step is to figure out if I am brave enough to get the boat onto saw horses or if I will careen her to get at the CB. Anyone know how much room I need under the boat to get the CB removed and refitted (for uphaul/downhaul replacement?) Just trying to figure out if I have saw-horses tall enough .. if not it may mean a dry launch (both are scarey tbh).

And although this is a long shot, has anyone tried dropping a DSII onto a J22 trailer? There is a spare at the club and I am wondering if it may be the answer to my CB problem! The J22 trailier is super tall to fit the keel, so it may have the room I need to get the job done...

Thanks again to this community for support and seemingly endless knowledge!!
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Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:58 pm

The length of the CB is about 4'. Figure on that much clearance.

Alternative: with 2 friends, launch onto the ground (use old carpet or launch on lawn/beach to avoid point loads), tip and roll over onto some old tires. Then extract CB from the (now) top. Because gravity doesn't support you when the CB trunk opening points up, easiest way is to use two webbing straps to lift the CB out horizontally. Same for controlled positioning when replacing. Works well. I think I may have used each as a loop with the ratchet engaged, allowed for very controlled release by one person while the other installed the H/W.

Or launch onto the ground with the mast rigged and use that long lever to flip the boat on its side (careening it). Needs a bit of soft support (or lawn or beach). You can do that yourself (single handed).

If your trailer has a hinge (break-neck) you may need to limit the tilt angle with a rope lashing for easier retrieval. If not, you may need to use a 2x4 to lever the bow to the height of your first roller on the trailer.

I've done multiple launches to the hard now, and all went well. I've done them single-handed and with one friend (both mast up) and with two friends (without mast, turning the boat 180°). The weight of the DS is such that it can still be controlled by manpower.

(I doubt the supports for a J22 trailer are in the right location, but that obviously depends on the trailer).
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Re: Where to start?

Postby andycayman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:33 pm

Thanks GL, I will give it some serious thought this weekend.
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Re: Where to start?

Postby Signalcharlie » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:11 pm

Careening, hmmm. Could that be how the mast got bent? Previous owner trying to get at the centerboard?
Kent and Skipper
1971 DS II #4624 "CYANE"
Small Boat Restoration blog http://smallboatrestoration.blogspot.com/p/o.html
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Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:42 pm

Nah, Interesting guess, but no. Using the mast to careen your boat is not not going to bend the mast --- that is, as long as the stays are attached.

I've straightened a bent mast and, working on the short end from the bend, the force needed was greater than my own bodyweight.

I've careened boats and the force to hold down a boat when on its side is less than the weight of a typical cinder block. Most of the force is taken up by the stays, when the mast is rigged, so, no, I'd say there's no comparison.

(And none of the boats I careened, including a fully loaded DSII in expedition mode, ever took damage to the mast from that.
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Re: Where to start?

Postby andycayman » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:02 am

I am pleased to report that careening was indeed a fairly simple and painless process as others have mentioned on this forum.

I have managed to remove the CB, and tomorrow I plan to replace the uphaul and hopefully find a fresh line suitable to replace the downhaul. I have some witness lines pulled through the CB trunk so that feeding the new lines back through should be fairly easy, although I suspect getting the CB pivot bolt back in may be frustrating but we will see.

A couple of curious things, the CB had water sloshing around in it! About half way up in the middle on one side there is a small hole, by moving the CB around I could drain most of the water out of it... but why is there a hole there, seems a bit odd. If it was for draining I would expect it to be closer to the leading edge, should I block it up? There is also a sort of square indent at the top of the CB on the port side adjacent to the pivot, but it doesnt seem to serve any purpose. If anyone knows what it is I would be interested to know, below is an image of the CB with the odd square depression.

Image


For anyone interested how I careened my DS II step-by-step, this may be useful.

Your mileage may vary depending on your trailer type.

1. Position the boat where you want to careen, allow for about 40% of a boat length behind the trailer. Remove the boom but leave the stays attached.
2. Chock the trailer wheels from the rear and raise the hitch end as far as possible,
3. Loosen the trailer strap and go to the rear of the trailer.
4. If your trailer is like mine with rollers and bunks a determined pull on the transom will start sliding the boat backwards off the trailer.
5. After pulling the boat back around 40% boat length the weight of the boat will just about start tipping the trailer up.
6. Position a tyre or something soft a couple of feet further back and then slide the boat even further back and rest the bottom of the transom on the tyre.
7. At this point the trailer hitch will be up in the air with the bow on the trailer and the transom resting on the ground, but everything should still be stable.
8. Position another tyre under the hull but at or close to the end of the trailer to support the bow when it finally comes off.
9. From the hitch end of the trailer start pulling with a little wiggle and as the boat is almost off the trailer you can raise the hitch end even further and gently lower the bow onto the tyre. I had a little help here to steady the boat but didnt really need it.
10. Position some soft things (I used pool noodles and a small bathroom carpet) to the side of the boat.
11. Haul down on the main halyard to start rolling her on her side and make certain your soft things are going to protect the side of the hull as you lay it over.
12. After getting her about 2/3 of the way over it will be very easy to pull down the rest of the way, and then just secure the mast to something heavy to prevent her from trying to right.

Image
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Re: Where to start?

Postby Alan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:27 am

My guess on the square hole is that it was intended for the centerboard handle on a DSI.
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Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:58 pm

Yep, that's the reason for that hole. Makes one board handle both configs
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Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:00 pm

Having a hollow space allows the board to be less buoyant without adding to the weight of the board. Something like that. Drain hole should be configured to drain when board is retracted.
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Re: Where to start?

Postby andycayman » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:49 pm

Well the square hole makes sense, thanks for that. I drained the CB as best I could and I have just finished putting it all back together again with new CB control lines, all seems to be working fine, next job is to replace the auto bailer while I have her careened and then back on the trailer.

Picked up a mast float today, so the rest of the weekend will be fitting that and various minor jobs. Sails and rigging did not make it in time for this weekend, but if they arrive during the coming week there is a small chance I can get her in the water next weekend.
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Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:55 am

Good luck!
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Re: Where to start?

Postby andycayman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 pm

Some progress and more questions :)

The center-board is all done and the boat is back on the trailer. Over the weekend I replaced all the standing rigging and trial fitted the sails. All is good so far but inevitably I have some questions.

Goosneck rigging:
I have read everything I could find on the forums but I am a little confused about how to rig the goosneck. At the base of the mast in the luff groove there is a small (6 inch or so) tube with two holes in it, I think there used to be a cleat screwed into this tube (from photos of other DS2's). This tube floats or can be moved up and down inside the luff groove. My question is this, if a cleat is re-installed into this floating tube, is that likely to lock the tube in place, and then would I install a line to the eye-loop at the bottom of the gooseneck to tighten up and keep the luff taught? Is this line also called a cunningham?

Sail Storage and handling:
My new sails (from Intensity) came folded in plastic bags, after the trial fit over the weekend I removed the sails and considered how best to store them. I know this seems like an odd question, but I really have no idea. My son races Optis and the opti team yells at anyone that doesnt roll sails to store them as creases are bad for them, but I am not racing my DS2, so would storing them folded in the hull (under a cockpit cover) cause any harm?

Boom Vang:
I have a new boom vang from D&R, and will hopefully fit it this week, but when I had the sails up over the weekend when I looked at the position of the vang plate on the bottom of the boom and the base of the mast it seems that the angle that the vang line/sheet would run is more acute than the diagram in the DS2 book or the rigging instructions that came with the vang. I think if the boom rode higher the angle would be more representative, but as it stand the angle looks to be too acute in that hauling in on the vang may not make much difference. This may be a little more confusing because I have not yet figured out how the boom downhaul should work. Any insight or photos of boom downhaul and vangs would be appreciated.

Self bailer:
I have the self bailer from D&R but when ofering it up the keel profile means that the bailer does not sit properly, so I am going to have to butcher it a bit to get it to fit, just wondering if anyone else has fitted one and has any advice?
http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DS81

Thanks again,
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Re: Where to start?

Postby GreenLake » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:03 pm

andycayman wrote:Goosneck rigging:
I have read everything I could find on the forums but I am a little confused about how to rig the goosneck. At the base of the mast in the luff groove there is a small (6 inch or so) tube with two holes in it, I think there used to be a cleat screwed into this tube (from photos of other DS2's). This tube floats or can be moved up and down inside the luff groove. My question is this, if a cleat is re-installed into this floating tube, is that likely to lock the tube in place, and then would I install a line to the eye-loop at the bottom of the gooseneck to tighten up and keep the luff taught? Is this line also called a cunningham?

Yes, that kind of fitting is used to lock a cleat in place. I have both, a little plate that just forms a lock and below it, a cleat.

The line you mention is not a Cunningham (that one would attach to a cringle a few inches up in the luff of the sail). However, you would use it as described. If you can, install a second cleat, so you can tie down the gooseneck AND cleat a cunningham, if your sail supports one (or if you think you'll get a new sail at some point that does).

andycayman wrote:Sail Storage and handling:
My new sails (from Intensity) came folded in plastic bags, after the trial fit over the weekend I removed the sails and considered how best to store them. I know this seems like an odd question, but I really have no idea. My son races Optis and the opti team yells at anyone that doesnt roll sails to store them as creases are bad for them, but I am not racing my DS2, so would storing them folded in the hull (under a cockpit cover) cause any harm?

Roll your sails. Modern sail fabric is pretty stiff and folding is really not the way to go. You can get long tube-like sail bags that fit rolled sails. The sails are stored tack first in the bag. When you roll a mainsail, you make sure any battens are parallel to the long dimension of the roll and then you do not need to take them out.

andycayman wrote:Boom Vang:
I have a new boom vang from D&R, and will hopefully fit it this week, but when I had the sails up over the weekend when I looked at the position of the vang plate on the bottom of the boom and the base of the mast it seems that the angle that the vang line/sheet would run is more acute than the diagram in the DS2 book or the rigging instructions that came with the vang. I think if the boom rode higher the angle would be more representative, but as it stand the angle looks to be too acute in that hauling in on the vang may not make much difference. This may be a little more confusing because I have not yet figured out how the boom downhaul should work. Any insight or photos of boom downhaul and vangs would be appreciated.


The angle is pretty acute.

2328
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