CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

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CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:25 am

My partner and I did a test capsize that didnt go well. We tried to right it first by pressing on the CB, which didnt work at all! The CB cracked as I pulled myself up. The main was wrapped up all nice and sound on the boom which was held aloft by the main halyard. I weigh all of 140, whcih wasnt enough. With my partner assisting the CB, nothing... we tried using thr stern line to essentialy belay ourselves to get our weight out, she did the same on the main sheet, nothing. She turtle within 5 minutes of us taking our weight off. We were in a "shallow" part of the lake, about 15-17', and in the process the boat turned the hull around so her bottomside was facing windward, jamming the mast into the rocks and mud. Help came, and we were able to swim down and get a line on the mast, raising up, and put 2 life jackets under the end of the mast. A pontoon boat pushed her mast first to shore, where we could push the mast up and haul the boat up from the pontoon. From everything I read,righting the boat should of been much easier.
Total Damage:
Cracked CB
Port shroud spreader broke
1 lost day bailing the swamped boat and derigging her.

Any suggestions on purchasing and reinstalling the CB, as well as insights on righting the boat would be appreciated. Ive read most of the threads on righting... probably going to get a mast float or Ive seen what look like fenders that attach to either side of the top of the main.

With all this said, I was surprised how much it too to calsizs her.
DeanMerrill
 
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:05 pm

Thanks for sharing this story.

I'm not 100% sure I picture how far out on the CB you were. Because of the crack, I imagine you might have stayed close to the hull. People who report being able to right their boats had to stand pretty far back (and may have had an extra 100 lbs on you).

For a replacement CB you could advertise here in the WTB section to see if anyone has a spare one (make sure to note it's for a DSII) or you can purchase a new stock one from D&R Marine.

You may be in a better position to evaluate whether the crack can possibly be fixed. Is it a matter of simply grinding back the laminate and patching the crack?

Finally, people have made their own by gluing strips of wood into a plank, then planing and sanding that into a foil profile. Here's an article that describes the process of how to build your own centerboard.

(If you plan to race your boat in DSA sponsored races, you need to read and follows a few simple prescriptions in the DSA bylaws to makes sure your CB remains class legal, if not, you don't have to worry).

Advantage of building your own is that you can give it a much better foil profile than the stock design; it's a skill you can master, but it may not be for everyone.

Advantage of repair (if feasible) or getting a used one would be price.

Advantage of getting a new one may be in getting back on the water the fastest.

(Spreaders are available from DRMarine as well).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:39 pm

Thanks for the thoughts. I was surprised that it cracked, especially since it happened before I stood in it. There is a visabe break on one side running parallel with the hull, and it opens up with any presure on the end of the CB. I was able to stand on the CB near the base, and that was ok. I just got this boat, so it's history is unknown at this point. I think Im going to go the D&R route to get sailing quicker. The summers are too short in Maine to spend fixing a CB ;)
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:51 pm

Thanks for the follow-up. If getting a new board from DR Marine works for you, great. Make sure to call and talk to Rudy - I see from the product listing that the DSII CBs come without the pivot hole drilled in them - he may be able to advise you on that.

You are right, the CB should not have cracked. I believe the stock ones are effectively a shell from two laminated halves with some filling (or even hollow). If so, a repair would consist of removing cracked (and stressed) laminate, beveling the edges 12:1 making sure there's some filling there to allow new laminate to be laid up, and then re-laminating using epoxy and suitable fiberglass (some of it should be unidirectional roving to maximize strength along the long axis).

Even with fairing and a lick of paint this should be doable in one weekend (or several evenings). Assumption would be that the other side isn't also damaged, because that would double the repair effort. I'm just mentioning this here more for completeness.

So, from your description, when you tried to leverage the boat back up you stood on the CB, close to the hull, and were leaning back (holding on to some lines). I estimate that you were able to get your own center of gravity perhaps 1.5-2ft past the hull bottom by leaning back, and you write that you're not very heavy. Heavier crew, standing further back might effectively have doubled the righting moment. I believe that may well explain why some have been able to right their DS.

One final question: with a DSII you have a double hull. Did any water get between the hulls, or was all the water in the cockpit?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:34 pm

Hi!
The CB cracked when I was pulling on it while in the water immediately after she went over. I swam around to the CB, grabbed it near the end, and that's when it cracked. After that I moved my weight closer to the hull. When that didnt work my partner and I tried using lines to pull the submerged part of the boat up by using the main sheet and the stern line to self belay to get our weight out as far as we could standing on the hull about inline with the CB but not on it.
The DS II is a double hull. The cabin was flooded, as was the bilge/space between the hull. I was only able to empty out about 2/3 or of the water before having to wrap up for the night.
Thanks for the info on how to fix it! I probably will buy a new one and fix the old when I have time. Aways good to have a spair.
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:11 pm

Dean, thanks for the additional details. Normally, the double hull is supposed to provide spare flotation and should (ideally not fill during a capsize). I've seen DSIIs where there was a crack in the hull/deck joint allowing water to get in. If so, perhaps worth fixing. Also, many owners cut inspection ports into the seat backs and filled the seat/seat back space with flotation material that will provide reserve buoyancy even when water gets between the hulls. Approaches can be found here on the forum and range from sealed plastic bottles to pool noodles.

Good luck and enjoy the rest of your sailing season!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:29 pm

Quick question:
Would the hull/deck joint be underneith the the lip of the deck going around the hull? If so, hopefully it would be easy to spot there :)
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:27 pm

The bigle was bone dry before, wven after sailing and sitting on the dkck through major storms. Perhaps pulling on the lines attached to the cleats caused some separation, or thr stress on the mast caused some
By the chain plates... hmmmm
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:36 am

I sailed in a DS once that had a long crack at the hull-deck joint. Not an issue in regular sailing, but I would not have wanted to capsize in that boat.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby tomodda » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:12 am

Capsize testing in Maine waters? Brrrrrrr.....

Sorry to hear (read) that is was such an ordeal, glad that everyone escaped (mostly) unharmed. Yeah, righting the DS is not like righting a Laser, Sunfish, Hobie and the like. The saving grace is that you have to REALLY be trying to flip the beast in the first place. In my limited testing, I've sailed along with water coming over the coamings into the cockpit with no problem. How far over where you when you lost control and capsized?
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:59 pm

We weren't under sail when we capsized it. We just pulled on the mast and main halyard to get her to go over... I was surprised how much it took to do that. The point was to find out what it took. I've only sailed J22's before this, so I wanfed to find the point of no return. Luckily it was a hot day and the water is approaching the warmer season in the lake. I surf in the winter, so anything over 40 degrees is warm! ;)

I have new spreaders and hardware to install a topping lift, and am working with Rudy at D&R to get a CB.
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby tomodda » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:04 pm

So what did it take? Any idea what angle she was at when you reached "the point of no return"?
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:16 pm

I would say something around 50-60 degrees, and then she was still reluctant.
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:16 pm

You wrote in your first post that it was a capsize test and that you had your main lashed to the boom. How did you get o 50-60 degree angle?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: CB crack from capsize / turtle - fix?

Postby DeanMerrill » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:54 pm

We got it to heel over by pulling the mast to the side while standing on the deck, leaning way over, and kept at it until she let go. Again, we werent under sail... simply paddeled her out a ways from shore and put our weight on one side. :shock:
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