Damage / Age to my DS II

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Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby DeanMerrill » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:52 am

Hi all. I'm taking this part of the damage / turtle story to a new thread.
After careening my boat to remove the CB, I was able to get my first good look at the hull after purchasing this boat. I had planned on doing a new paint job next spring, and it seems like there is more work to be done than expected. I'd love any feedback on fixing any of these, as it will help me prepare the job in advance.

***NOTE: forum software is cropping the images. Right click and open image in new tab to view full image. ****

First: Blistering:
This is on both sides of the hull. yikes. I'm assuming I'll have to grind these down, add a new gelcoat before painting it.
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Bow Hull:
This looks like it was probably done from beaching her after we turtled it... Though I would expect the paint to be much more tough.
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Trailer damage?
There are these thumb sized impact type fractures on the hull, which to my best estimate line up with the rollers on the trailer. I plan on converting the trailer this fall into a bunk system to distribute the boards better and do less damage to the hull. New glass???
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Cracking around the edge of the CB trunk:
I'm not sure what would of caused this, but it'll need to be fixed. I'm guessing some new glass?
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Deep crack / chips / gouges along port side bootstrap:
I'm not sure what would of caused these, but it seems very deep and could be a culprit causing blistering and leakage? Could this be filled with a compound??
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Autobailer:
This seems like a straight forward replacement job, though what sealant should I use when replacing it
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:50 pm

The blisters would be caused by osmosis, something that happens when boats are kept in the water. Not all are equally susceptible to it. The web, or the boating part of it, is full of discussions of this issue and possible treatments. As DS is a small boat, a repair is manageable, and it's not a disaster if it were to require a bit of follow-up several years later (unlike a bigger boat, where that can be expensive).

My understanding of this, having read way to much about other people's problems, is that you grind out all the problem spots and let the boat dry thoroughly. You then fill and fair, apply a coat of epoxy to provide a watertight seal and paint over that.

There are areas where you have what look like extensive network of cracks. For those, I would look at grinding off the gelcoat over a defined area (circular or rectangular) and perhaps adding one layer of glass cloth with epoxy, up to the depth of the removed gelcoat. That might be your best bet for preventing these from showing again. If the cracks continue into the laminate, you may need to grind a bit deeper to, say, the depth of two layers of cloth. That should rebuild some of the strength. From your photos it doesn't look like the lamniate would be in too terrible a state, but if there's a soft patch you may need to rebuild it to a greater depth and/or cut out the damaged section and replace (which has it's own problems of how you'll support the repair).

I've used two vinylester based fillers from 3M that I've been very happy with. One is fiberglass reinforced (called "High Strength Marine Filler") and would be useful for filling deeper defects or bridging smaller cracks. It's not as suitable as a final filler as the "Premium Marine Filler" which is smoother and more suitable to fill up to the faired surface. Both are rated for below the water line.

Then there's SystemThree's QuickFair. That one has a longer working time (but cures more slowly) and is epoxy based. It would be my choice for fairing larger areas. It sands well. You'll want to get or make a long sanding board for final fairing so you knock down the high areas reliably. Using an orbital sander can leave you with a surface that is locally smooth but undulating. There are rolls of adhesive backed sandpaper tape that are perfect for long sanding boards (just a plank with a handle or two on the back).

For epoxy sealing you can use a spreader to spread neat epoxy and a tipping brush to take out any little ridges. SystemThree SilverTip or equivalents from WestSystem or MAS would all serve. Then wash (with slightly soapy water) to get any amine blush off, do final sanding and paint with whatever underwater paint you are planning to use (or a topside paint, if you drysail your boat).

I can't give conclusive advice on the bailer, as I really having had to use sealants much around boats. Stay away from anything containing silicone (you'll get adhesion problems for paints) and stay away of the strong adhesive sealants like 3M 5200. For deck hardware, people recommend butyl tape, but you might want to look at SikaFlex 291 - it's highly rated.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby DeanMerrill » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:13 am

Thanks for the info!
I was planning in doing a complete re-paint of the entire boat next year, so this doesnt add too much work. For the undamaged areas, some light sanding before painting should be all that is needed... correct?
The cockpit and decks have some spiderweb cracking in spots, and mild crazing. I plan on drummeling them out, filling the hole/channel, fairing it down, and repainting the entired surface. Im also thinking of installing some wood strips on the flooring and seats. See attached. From what Ive seen, my plan would be after refinishing the topside, to install the assembled flooring and seating by glue/ adhesive of some type. The assembly would have perpendicular supports to the wood slats running lengthwise of the boat that would make up the flooring and seating. This may be done at a later date depending on how long all the finishing goes.

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3D78F79F-349D-4677-8E5D-C9B8EC9EC7C0.jpeg (29.62 KiB) Viewed 742 times
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:33 pm

The light sanding seems about right for places where the gelcoat is still good.

Your other plans sound like you are trying to make the DSII into a DS1 (with all the woodwork).

The difference between the two versions of the DS is that the seats in the DSII seemed shallower to me. If you put a wood grating in the footwell of your DSII you'll exacerbate that effect. And you would be adding a not inconsiderable amount of weight. (I took my floorboards out of my DS1 to refinish them, a project that stalled for various reasons, and I've been sailing it for several seasons now without. Certainly didn't hurt our boat speed; I had to rig a replacement shelf for the cuddy floor, though, or all my bags would sit in the bilge, which is not ideal - not an issue for a DSII).

But, that said, your plan looks doable. Just be sure that you can get each piece into the boat (there are some subtle curves; I would do a mock-up of the big piece, for example). You don't need to glue anything for the floors, gravity holds them quite well - at least until you capsize, and then they'll float.

For the seats, I would propose something quite different. When I sailed in a DSII for some extended cruising, mostly going downwind, I found seating not very pleasant. The boat was rigged with a plank that could be used to turn the space between the seats into a sleeping platform. We ended up placing it crosswise near the middle part of the aft end of the cockpit and I could sit on it facing forward (or more forward) and it was slightly raised, giving more room for my legs. My friend ended up mostly leaning on the cuddy bulkhead, facing aft.

For the few upwind stretches, we both sat on the coamings, not the seats, so any permanently installed seat backs higher than the coamings would have been in the way. I've sailed my own boat decorated so that you could not sit on the coamings and was able to pull that off only because of superior crew weight and light winds.

832

So, if you are looking for comfort, I'd look into making two "chairs", simple L shaped contraptions with cushions for seat and back. Then, for times when you don't need to sit on the rail for long stretches, you can angle one near the front and in the rear, make a "bridge" so you can place one facing forward. Having a "bridge" there also helps remind you that sitting in the back of the cockpit slows down your boat (as you would be dragging the stern through the water: on my boat, if I move forward, my electric motor will give a quarter mile additional range. It is designed to run for an hour at full throttle, and the top speed increases by about .25 knots).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby DeanMerrill » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:33 pm

I think just adding teak flooring would be the way to go.

I researched the osmosis issue and it seems straight forward. Considering Im repainting the whole hull, perhaps grinding all the spots out one by one first is the best way to ensure I can get them all. Then Im thinking of chemically stripping all the paint, including the bootstrap. So I'd make a template for the bootstrap, strip it all, to any depair work, epoxy seal it, and then use expoxy paint for finishing . She wont be going in salt water while I own her.
Thoughts?
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby jalmeida51 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:31 pm

I needed to figure out where my water line should be so I launched the boat and let it sit for 4 days at a dock and the scum line gave me a perfect water line. Pulled the boat out taped the new water line and washed the bottom. Painted the bottom and painted the boot stripe. I tried removing paint from a McVay Minuet and with a chemical stripper made by Interlux which won't hurt the gel coat. It was useless didn't even strip the soft bottom paint. So I sanded it down to the gel coat. I understand some chemical strippers can damage the gel coat. Either way it's a dirty miserable job. Best of luck John
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby tomodda » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:41 pm

Dean:

Your hull looks no worse than mine when I flipped it, including some osmosis blisters (just not quite so many, luck me!). Pretty much do what GL suggests, including grinding out the osmosis blisters and giving them a few days to dry. Be careful sanding down to gelcoat, at least with an orbital sander, it's very easy to grind thru. Some tips and thoughts:

1) If you are dry-sailing (trailer), then Petit Easypoxy (the one part stuff) is great. I used Kirby Paints Topside paint (it's a hard enamel) and am very happy to so far (6 months). I used a heavily thinned down coat as primer, and then 2 "regular" (jsut enough thinner to help spreading) coats. Roll and tip...
2) Fill your cracks and gouges with thickened epoxy of some sort - see GL's suggestions. I know I"m crazy, but I used sanding dust (from sanding down the hull) to thicken my epoxy. A tip - once you put epoxy goo into a chip or crack, cover it over with some scotch tape and smooth it over. This will save you a lot of sanding later, you'll have a relatively smooth patch to sand down instead of runs and drips.
3) Look up the hairline crack and chip fix products from "MagicEzy". Stupid expensive - $20 for a 1/2 oz tube - but you don't need a lot and it works wonders in those annoying little cracks. The $20 is worth your time in NOT having to jam thicken goo down into hairline cracks. DON'T use my scotch tape trick on this stuff, it needs to air-dry. Again, I think the hairline product is worth it, the "9-second chip fix" is nice but you need a hairdryer/air gun to set it in 9 secs.
4) Get bunkers on your trailer ASAP. I built mine out of 2x4 pressure treated lumber [CORRECTION - I used 1x8's (top) screwed onto 1x6's (bottom) screwed to my bunker supports, GL below is right - wider the better!), outdoor carpet from a big box store (the one that begins with "L", the orange one doesnt have it), and stainless staples. I cut a $20 carpet into 8-inch wide strips, stapled from underneath to avoid scratching my hull, and used a double-layer of carpet - I had enough to do it and why not? Softer :) Just cuz I'm crazy, I also sprayed my carpet down with silicon dry lubricant. I had a can of it floating around and it does make the carpet nice and slick, boat slides on/off like water on duck's ass.
5) As long as we're on the subject of trailers, Have you repacked your hubs yet? How's your launch/retrieval cable and winch? How are your trailer lights? Harbor Freight/Northen Tools is your friend here, they have lots of trailer replacement parts at a decent price.
6) My DS1 has the waterline molded in (two light lines). Does the DS2 have them? If not, use a laser level, the type that spins around to set a line. You can rent for HD, etc. The Waterline "spreads" out quite a bit at the stern, the flat part, since it's meant to be seen at an angle.

Assuming you don't live in a place that freezes hard, these are all winter projects. Go sailing! Nothing wrong with your hull that can't wait.
Last edited by tomodda on Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:07 pm

If you live in a cold place, rent a garage that you can heat. With the right epoxy (such as SystemThree's "ColdCure" you can work down to 35F, if you have to, but curing will take its time). For other materials you can try to heat up the hull area you work on (as well as the material itself) and then it may cure before either has cooled too far; esp. if you heat the surrounding a bit.

I tend to prefer pre-mixed fillers. You get much better consistency, are easier to mix, and they are formulated so that they don't get too hard (that is, remain sandable). Tom's been singing the praises of his special gunk for cracks. I've never seen it stocked where I shop, but it sounds good.

Bunks for trailer: 2x4 is way to narrow, (sorry Tom). Mine has steel supports for almost the full length of the bunks, so I could get away with 1x rather than 2x (not that it really matters) but went o 6" wide (and wish I had done 8"). Outdoor carpet, or also vehicle carpet, can sometimes be purchased at a carpet remnant place.

Hubs: open up, inspect bearings, replace if any signs of wear, repack and then cap with "bearing buddies". They replace the dust caps, but keep a bit of pressure on your grease, so water doesn't get in. You'll need to get the seals that come with them for the axle side. They are press-fit, so you need to know the precise inside diameter of your hub to select the right one. If your hub should be out of tolerance, you'll need to get a wider one and have it machined down at a local shop.

Winch: if yours is wire: convert to strap or Amsteel rope, unless the wire is in super good shape (then do that as soon as it has a split strand). Amsteel is ridiculously strong, 3/16" can lift boat and car, I think, so you don't need to go up in diameter much from the original wire (so it will fit on the spool). You'll need to splice in the shackle, but if you look up instructions on the web, you'll find that splicing Amsteel (dyneema) is child's play.

OK, file these away, go sailing and have a great winter full of projects!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby DeanMerrill » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:30 am

These are all great tips!
I'll plan on fixing up the trailer, and it looks like it should be pretty easy to do. The previous owner said that they had repacked the bearings, which they may have. We ended up having to have a garage repack one, and re-install the whole assembly on the other... and it was a premium price, ouch! We were able to launch it fine after that, minus having to wait a day to sail it to our dock due to high winds. The launch is about 1 mile from the dock by road, so she wont be traveling far.
Unfortunately I live in Maine, and by boat sits on a lake near Moosehead, so it certainly freezes up here. Depending on cost I could rent a heated garage for the winter, but it may be something that will have to wait until early spring.
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:50 am

Sometimes, if you can do the work in (early) fall at all you may be better off.

Repacking bearings is not rocket science. :) And then you can fit bearing buddies. Well, those are primarily useful if you drysail the boat, that is, drive the trailer into the water each time you use it.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby DeanMerrill » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:09 pm

So I guess the plan of action would be after removing the blistered areas and cleaning them, as well as all the other areas, and they have dried, apply an epoxy barrier coat, then sand all the existing non damaged areas of the hull, and finally apply the epoxy finish layers. Is this correct? Would it be better after fixing all the damaged areas just to chemically strip the rest of the hull? I'm trying to figure out the best solution for longevity of the boat, as it will be sitting in the lake for about 5 months of the year.
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:02 am

My experience is with dry-sailed boats, so won't carry over.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby jalmeida51 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:44 am

It might be worth your time and money to hire a marine surveyor. He can tell you the best way to repair and which products to use to repair all the damage areas. Maybe you can find a local boatyard that does fiberglass work and have one of their fiberglass repairmen look at your boat. I think by having a person with real knowledge about repairing fiberglass is what you need to get you started. You are undertaking a big and dirty job. You want to do it one time and have the repair last. Best of luck, John
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby Signalcharlie » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:47 pm

If you are going to leave the boat in the water then i would use gelcoat to repair the blistered areas, as most one part marine paints are meant for topsides. You could paint over the gelcoat repair if it was patchy or bottom paint it with a hard bottom paint.

Most of what I see on your boat is gelcoat cracking or blistering. Sand those areas back to remove damaged gelcoat, then you can assess if there is fiberglass damage underneath from rollers, etc...If so, repair the fiberglass then apply a protective gelcoat layer.
Kent and Skipper
1971 DS II #4624 "CYANE"
Small Boat Restoration blog http://smallboatrestoration.blogspot.com/p/o.html
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Re: Damage / Age to my DS II

Postby DeanMerrill » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:22 pm

Ah yes, I forgot to mention the replacing and fairing of the gelcoat on the blisters. Im thinking this is a great winter project if I can find a place to work on her for a month or two.
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