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Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:18 am
by Nephroid
Hello. I am new to this forum but have been lurking for the last several months while I was working on my DS purchase. I finally found what looks to me like a nice boat, an O’Day built DSII with Class No. 4970 from ‘72.

Aside from the typical blemishes and cracks of a boat her age she seems to have been relatively good shape. There were some repairs done on the hull and the bow that look reasonably solid to me.

My biggest concern is a large crack on the cuddy top around the opening for the mast. I’m trying to determine whether the fiberglass is actually under load when sailing and how easily repairable it is.

The second concern are some cracks around the base of the centerboard trunk directly underneath the mainsheet block. I’m relatively certain this area will be under constant tension while underway and any repairs might simply crack without reinforcement.

I couldn’t figure out how to upload photos to this site, so have posted some here

Would these be dealbreakers for you?

A couple more pics can be found

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:20 am
by tomodda
Not deal-breaker, but I'd be asking for a considerable discount. Wouldn't pay much over a grand for this boat, considering the work you need to put in. The patch in the bottom is what scares me, what's going on under there? Why is the patch so shoddy? How badly did the hull get breached, is there any re-enforcement inside?

As for the cuddy roof, you can fix that crack, put an extra layer of glass around the partners for underneath if you want to reenforce. The side-forces on the mast are borne by the shrouds, not the partners, so no worries. Just triple check your chainplates! And get real spreaders... The cracks by the centerboard trunk are minor, IMHO. There is not much stress there - as opposed to the front of the trunk, by the hinge. Besides, those cracks are on the "false floor," you still have support from the hull itself.

Anyway, you'll have to figure out for yourself how to balance price/convenience/rehab work. Personally, I'd keep looking, but that's cuz I'm congenitally lazy. No deal-breakers here for anyone willing to do a little work.

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:39 am
by Signalcharlie
Howdy Nephroid

First I would ask the seller if they knew how the cuddy damage happened. It looks to me like the mast was displaced while stepping or it hit an overhead obstacle or a stay pulled out. Possibly the tabernacle was added after the cuddy event. The cuddy top is only load bearing in the sense that it held holds the mast while stepping and unstepping, and it is an easy fiberglas repair. The load goes through the stays and mast step. I would also look at the forestay tang, sidestay tangs and mast step in cuddy floor for damage. From the photos the starboard shroud stay and surrounding fiberglass looks okay, and the floor around the cuddy looks to be in good shape, no depression that I can see.

As for the cracks by the centerboard trunk our boat has the same, they appear to be gelcoat crazing in the 47 year old gelcoat and not fiberglass damage. If you give a tug on the trunk it should not move.

As for ugly looking repairs, I'd replace the bandaid patch on the bottom by the centerboard, we are doing similar clean up on our Sunfish right now. Yes it was easy and field expedient to do it that way, but the crack was never addressed from a structural sense. You MIGHT even be able to access that area through the inspection port rings on the cockpit floor to put in a fiberglass backer patch. Probably need to take those ports out and at least reseal them, or replace with new rings. They develop leaks over time. Or for the bottom get a fiberglass shop to grind out the crack a bit, put in a backer patch, build the glass back up, fair, sand and gelcoat or paint.

Speaking of centerboards, they have a wood core with fiberglass skin, they get wet and swell/fail, so you should make sure the centerboard moves and put it on the short list to check out. You can figure out how to do it many ways, or get a shop to check it as well as the pivot bolt.

You have seen the basket cases we take on, they are so bad that no one would bother to take them to the dump. That Day Sailer II needs a new Skipper, with around $600 you can get the fiberglass repairs done or less if you invest the sweat equity. You could also be in the "sail it like it is" camp, so it depends on what you intend to do with the boat. You won't be able to flip it for any appreciable return on investment, unless you count moral victories like we do.

But before we go, take a long hard look at that trailer. Lots of rust on the frame and on a lot of the hardware, springs, axle, etc...Take a good look at the shackles. Keep in mind a lot of frames and axles rust from the inside out. Down here in Florida, for us and out trailer standards, that trailer would be swapped out and we normally go with new, which cost around $900 for a super duper galvanized trailer with all the bells and whistles.

She looks taken care of overall with some nice lines and minimal corrosion on the boat. She could use some freshwater, tilex and wax in a few areas. For US and our history of boat rescue for 50+ boats, those repairs would be easy and they would not be big concerns....

Soooooo, we don't see worries, we see challenges an opportunities. The rest depends on your level of risk acceptance. If you want an easy to medium project, grab her. Are the sails in good condition, mast not bent, rudder an O'Day part? Do you want to sail this weekend? She'd probably stand up to that. Do you enjoy diving into some reasonable projects, she'll be good for that too. If you want to go sailing without a short list of projects, move on to the next boat or buy a new one from Wendy!!

Standing by for questions,
Clark and Skipper

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:53 pm
by GreenLake
I'd tend to agree with @tomodda and @signalcharlie here. Mast partners (cuddy deck opening) can easily be reinforced from underneath by gluing on some backing plate (or pre-laminated piece of fiberglass). That in case you see any untoward flex when you step on the deck. And it would make the topside of the repair simpler as you could focus on cosmetics.

If any of the patches by the current owner are epoxy, they appear not UV protected, and you'd need to find out how long they've been exposed to get an idea of how far they may have deteriorated. If what we are seeing is transparent gel-coat or polyester, then that's not an issue.

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:40 pm
by jalmeida51
I would move on and find another boat. There is too much work to do on this boat. My attitude is I want to sail and not spend my time repairing a boat. There are a lot of DaySailers on the market. Graigslist , Sailing Texas, and other online sites have many listings. If you live in the Northeast more will come on the market in a few more months. Take your time don't rush into buying.
Things I noticed on your pictures, it needs new sails, shrounds headstay, spreaders. trailer, Make a list of all the parts that need to be replaced and check for prices. D & R Marine has about everything you need other than the trailer. Add all the parts up plus the cost of the boat. You might find that the total cost is about the same as a boat that doesn't require a lot of work. Best of luck, John

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:29 am
by Nephroid
Thanks everyone! This is great advice.

Reassuring to know that the mast partner is a straightforward fix. The owner told me it was a stepping mishap. Mast overall looks quite straight and the shroud stays/chainplates look well bedded and don’t show signs of abuse.

It looks like I need to pay more attention to the hull repair and figure out what’s going on there. Will defin Let spend some time on this on my next visit.

For me I’m looking for a bit of a project boat. Not to save money per se but to gain some restoration experience that results in something to truly call my own. I just want to make sure I’m not getting in over my head.

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:08 am
by GreenLake
Nicely put.

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:31 pm
by Nephroid
Hey everyone. Long overdue update but I wound up picking her up shortly after my last post.

Very excited to have a DS in the fleet! The kids have already given her a name... Jiblet... because she is our first boat with a headsail.

As mentioned, there's a bit of work to do on both Jiblet and her trailer which should make for a fun winter. My goal is to at least get her rigged and possibly in the water at least once before the winter to get a better sense of what's needed and what else might not be obvious from the initial inspection.

Lots to learn. Will start a new thread to go through each project as we go along though.

Re: Buying my first DS - 2 concerns

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:53 pm
by GreenLake
Sounds like a plan!