Looking at Buying a DSII

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Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:01 am

Hello,

I’m looking to buy a DSII from a friend. It’s a 1978 model. They are asking $500 for it and the trailer, but it’s definitely a fixer upper, which I am okay with. I enjoy tinkering with things. I wanted to post here and see if anyone else had any input. I will attach some pictures below, but I don’t have very many. I know the mast isn’t pictured but it is included, I have seen it. I just didn’t do a very good job of taking pictures. It’s been outside since the late ‘90s. It has some minor gel coat cracking on the side of the deck but nothing major. I crawled under it and there is one spot on the bottom with a rather ugly looking repair job. That is located at the foreword most point of the CB cabinet on the bottom of the hull. Obviously all running rigging is shot from being left outside unused for 20 years. I’ve done quite a bit of digging around on the forum as far as the major issues, the CB does lower, because the lines are so old it’s tough to get it up all the way without worrying about snapping the line but it does go up most of the way with moderate pulling. I brushed the leaves out and was able to get to the inspection ports, there is some moisture in the bilge, currently ice/frost lol, but not standing water. The mast has the tabernacle. My friend did tell me she has kept the sails in a trunk in the basement. She’s older and just had a serious shoulder surgery so I haven’t seen them first hand but she says they are in decent shape. I’m a college student so money is tight at the moment so I know this isn’t something I will be able to in a few weeks and be sailing, I know it’s going to be a months/years long process of saving up money, buying parts, finding time to do the work, rinse, repeat lol. I have dreamed of one day having a cruising/live aboard boat. This would be my first sailboat and my attempt at testing the waters. I have grown up with motor boats so I am not completely new to boats. What do you all think for 500$? 500$ was the price she gave me, I’ve seen boats online on facebook and craigslist in pretty rough shape go for 1500-2000 so i felt bad about trying to talk her down much more. Do you all think that’s a fair price?
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nickc
 
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:03 am

Part 2: There are extra mast pieces in the boat that don’t belong to it. The seller has a laser as well, those extra mast pieces are for that boat they are just sitting in the DS

As you can see in the transom picture above there are two bolts to the left and right of the rudder attachment brackets. Any idea what these are for? I haven’t seen them on pictures of other boats. On the inside of the boat they are eye bolts, all the way through the transom with the nut on the outside of the transom
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby tomodda » Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:53 pm

Talk about a "Barn Find".... Look, I don't know you or your financial circumstances, and obviously don't know this boat. I can tell you that my very optimistic guesstimate to get this boat into the water is about $1000-1500, and that assumes you have basic tools (drill, screwdrivers, hopefully an orbital sander) and don't' care how she looks or how well she sails. Now, I'm a very grumpy person by nature, and even moreso today :). So take this with a grain of salt - if it were me, I'd ask her how much she'd pay ME to get this boat off her property. I say that (write that) because of the wheel half-sunk into the ground. I can only imagine what state the tire, hubs, and trailer wiring are in. I'd not be surprised if the wheels don't spin at all....

OK, enough grumpiness. Fact is that if the boat is close to you and you want the project, then $500 is a reasonable point of entry (assuming there aren't any free Daysailers in same condition nearby). Up to you how much you want to negotiate with her. I'd not worry so much about the $500 and think instead about the "dealbreakers" that should make you walk away. For me, the dealbreakers would be:

1) Are the sails useable? Unfold them on the lawn, dont worry about shape (you're not experienced in sailing enough to worry about that), but see if there are any holes, rot, obvious damage, etc.
2) Is the mast OK? If you are able to, then raise the mast on the boat. Otherwise put it on a pair of sawhorse 0or chairs even) and see if there are any horrendous bends or bumps. The mast is supposed to flex, so it's OK if the mast lays down on the sawhorses/chairs in one big gentle arc.
3) Does the boom attach to the mast? There should be a working gooseneck that slides onto the mast track...
4) Any obvious weak points in the hull? The repair you describe forward of the centerboard trunk sounds worrisome. Around the CB is the most stressed part of the entire hull...

Another whole story is if you have enough experience with sailboats to know what you are looking for with points 1-4 above. Do you know any sailors to take with you to look at the boat? Lastly, my point #2 about the mast is VERY important. If the mast is no good, then getting a new one is practically impossible. Yes, you can buy one for relatively reasonable money, but shipping it will cost you $1-2K!

Oh, assuming you get this boat, do you have a place to put it/work on it? Suggestion, if you've never sailed at all, why not start with something smaller and less space/time/money intensive? Sunfish that you can throw on top of the car, for instance. Or build an 8' (or so) stitch-and-glue pram, which will teach you in both dealing with wood and working with epoxy. Just saying that 17'' of boat, small as it is, can be an awful lot of boat to deal with on land.. need a car to tow it, need a place to keep it, need a place to keep my sails, tools, etc, etc. Maybe you start simpler?

Anyway, good luck!
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:51 pm

The mast is fine. The sails are fine. I know it’s gonna be a project lol. I went ahead and bought it because of some logistical aspects of getting it home having a time window. I’m young so worst case scenario I learn some life lessons. My only concern is after crawling around under it I noticed that on the port side the bottom is warped in where it rests on the trailer bunk. I hope that is something that either isn’t a big deal or is repairable, otherwise i may be shot down before i’m off the ground lol. I’m 19 in college so money is sporadic, I know it’s going to be an on again off again project as I can afford the components. I’ll attach a picture of the hull below let me know what you all think.
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:09 pm

More pictures of hull
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nickc
 
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby tomodda » Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:09 pm

Short on time, quick thoughts:

Bent in at bunkers, no problem, DS's do that. Build better bunks.

That repair looks like it's AFT of the centerboard, not forward. If aft, no problem. Sand it smooth and seal. No hurry, aft of CB is a turbulent area anyways.

Take your Mom and Dad sailing!
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:28 pm

The repair is at the bow end of the centerboard near where the CB bolt is.
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby tomodda » Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:54 pm

Congrats, you're a boatowner! Welcome to the club.

Okidoki, then here's what you do to fix that ugly patch, at least temporarily: Sand that mess down till it's smooth in relation to the rest of the hull. Now you need epoxy and filler... I'm assuming you know how to do this from your powerboat work? If not, ask here on the forum. Mix yourself a semi-coherent paste of epoxy+filler, about the consistency of peanut butter. Now for my big trick, apply some of your epoxy filler over the sanded area, including over the bit of underlay that is showing, I use plastic putty knives, but anything will do. Then take a piece of packing tape and lay it over the epoxy fix, as smooth and flat as possible. Epoxy does NOT stick to tape. :) Once it's cured, rip the tape off and give it another sanding, done! If you mix your epoxy to the right consitency, you can do this while the boat is on the trailer, no need to flip it. Just wear protective gear! Gloves, eye protection, something for your hair, and either very old clothes or a Tyvek bunny suit. And a mask, of course, N-95 if you still got some. Assume that epoxy WILL get on your and prepare accordingly. By the way, you can get it off your skin with vinegar.

GreenLake is gonna hate everything I wrote up above :) The correct way to fix that shitty patch is to grind it out, with steps or a ramp from the gelcoat down to the underlay, then patch it with a few layers of biaxial fiberglass tape, each one progressively bigger as you work your way out to the gelcoat. Epoxy each layer in place, sand, fill, etc. IMHO, you can do that later, or just dont worry about it and do it for bigger patches elsewhere. BIG question is if you have leaks after your fix. Keep an eye on the area forward of the CB when you eventually get on the water.

Keep an eye on Ebay and tag-end sails to buy up your running rigging. Shit doesn't really have to match, just make sure whatever you buy is within the right working and breaking load tolerances. The most expensive "must have" is your mainsheet blocks, so either lay out some money or be patient with used markets. There are also a bunch of used marine part dealers (NandJMarine, I think is one), be creative! For your lines (rope), do absolutely buy them new. You don't need tip-top quality line (rope), but its' nice to have rope that doesn't stretch much. Look at GreenLakes post on what ropes he uses, and then start looking at what New England Ropes or Fisheries Supply charges for them. Don't over-engineer, get good rope, but not any thicker/larger than what you really need. As always, don't be afraid to ask questions.

Set yourself a goal then scrimp/save/scrounge your way to achieving it! How about you get the boat in the water for a paddle around (or outboard if you have one) with Mom for Mother's Day? Then a first sail sometime soon after? I dunno, whatever works for you, but no reason you can't get the boat in the water this year. You got it out of the mud, that was the first step!

All the best,

Tom
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:38 pm

I just got it home. It was a few hours away, near my college but not my parents house. It is just now setting in that I sm actually doing this lol. I’ not even sure where to start. I guess with the pressure washer lol
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby tomodda » Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:41 pm

Use TSP (Trisodium Phosphate) to clean. Add it to your power washer stream (via that little add-on bottle thingie), but you can simply dissolve TSP into a bucket of water and clean with a sponge. It's great stuff! Notsogood for your run-off, of course, but you don't need a lot.
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:34 pm

We have pets so I’m a little uneasy about spraying chemicals. I think i’ll just try straight water first. I found another DSII, this one is a ‘71 yo in Michigan. The guy wants 600$ for it, I offered him 3 for just the boat and he can keep the trailer. He said he would be interested in that. It comes with all the hardware my boat is missing and the hill appears to be in better shape. I’m thinking about buying it too and figuring out which hull is in better shape, restoring that hull, and scavenging the other boat for parts. The centerboard is messed up on the Michigan boat, guy said the guy before him left it down and dove home and it scrapped several inches off on the road. The boat I have now appears to have a good centerboard so I could swap that. If I bought this second boat for 300 I would have 3 booms, two masts, two sets of sails, two rudders, 1 good CB, 2 sets of standing rigging (the set with my boat is for parts only tho), and two hulls. The lady I bought mine from is older and hasn’t used the boat in about 15 years. she didn’t realize the hill was in such rough shape. she sent me half my money back. I’m only in my current boat for $300 now. If I bought the second one I would only have 100$ more in it than I planned initially and I’m thinking I may save money since the second boat has a lot of the rigging parts I would need to buy anyway. Opinions?
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby Dirtybug » Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:54 pm

Sounds like you have a good plan worked out if the needed parts are useable. I’d bet you could get that second trailer for a bit more $ keep the better of the two and still come out well ahead when you sell the other. In my area I see project boats on trailers go for free or very little compared to a bare trailer with no boat asking for real cash.
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby nickc » Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:40 pm

The guy sent me better pictures. It has some serious cracking where the cuddy top and seats come together as well as where the CB trunk and cuddy wall meet. That scared me away. It’s an 8 hour drive each way up and back so i decided to pass. i told him if he wanted to part his boat out to lmk and i’d be interested in buying parts that i need, hopefully for less than d&r prices lol
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Re: Looking at Buying a DSII

Postby tomodda » Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:24 pm

Too bad! The FrankenBoat sounded like a great project - "Igor, I need BRAINS!"..... "It's ALIVE!!!"... OK, I must have watched "Rocky Horror Picture Show" one too many times. :)

If you can get the guy to part his boat out, would be a great (and cheap) way to get your running rigging. Good luck!
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