Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

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Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby wiggsteve » Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:31 pm

The attachment bolts holding my mast step casting in place at the bottom of the compression post have deteriorated. As a result the compression post had too much wobble causing my new mast hinge(tabernacle) to buckle and fail when I single-handed the mast up.
To remove the casting I notched an opening around it with a dremel and then drilled out the rusted attachment bolts.
The tubing shown here is what is left below the casting.

VID_20230914_123544636_exported_33~32.jpg
VID_20230914_123544636_exported_33~32.jpg (162.59 KiB) Viewed 34596 times


Can the casting be re-attached by drilling into the surface edge of the tubing and screwing the casting into place?
Or would it be necessary to tear the cabin floor apart and go from there to try to find what and where the old attachment bolts were attached to?
VID_20230914_151803492_exported_141.jpg
VID_20230914_151803492_exported_141.jpg (243.69 KiB) Viewed 34596 times


Frustrated with this lame design!
wiggsteve
 
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Re: Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby bilbo » Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:04 pm

On my boat there are two sheet metal screws holding that casting in place. I didn’t do any surgery there so I’ve no idea what is under the floor but it felt like wood and/or FRP and I don’t believe I have a tube like you have.

Either way, if I understand correctly the bulk of the force there would be downward, so the screws would just keep things in position. I would then think that a few screws into the tube would be ok. Or maybe you could bond some aluminum or brass plate to all that to accept the screws.

Perhaps someone who has seen a setup exactly like yours will chime in.
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Re: Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby GreenLake » Thu Sep 14, 2023 10:50 pm

Welcome to the forum.

wiggsteve wrote:Frustrated with this lame design!


What year is your boat? It looks like however bad the design was, it managed to hold up for several decades.

However, you'd draw no disagreement that the mast DSII mast support does not impress as a design high point. And it may have changed a bit over the years (I'm not an expert on the DSII to know it to that level of detail).

For a repair, the key points are that the mast is supported at
  1. the correct level
  2. with enough strength to resist compression loads from the rig
  3. and anchored firmly enough to stay in place.

How you meet these conditions is somewhat up to you. If the support column is still in place (and in the correct location) you can use it. Other owners had issues with the support being off center, but that does not seem to be the case here.

I can't quite tell were your rusted out bolt was attache previously, but anything you might work up that results in the mast being fixed horizontally (and held down against any temporary pull upward during mast raising) would be fine. The floor (after you restore it) should be strong enough to support the mast in the horizontal direction. While the upward force on the mast during raising is less than the compression load it may be marginal to rely on the floor, but perhaps not.

However, it's difficult to diagnose some stuff from pictures. You may be better placed to know where to anchor any new bolts (and or where to maybe construct an anchor from an angled piece of aluminum glued to the compression post or a blob of fiberglass. I don't think you need to either drill into the compression post or reconstruct the precise method that was used before.

Does any of that sound right to you?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby wiggsteve » Fri Sep 15, 2023 8:13 am

Before I embark on any further repair effort would like to know if anyone agrees whether the loose compression post casting caused the mast hinge to buckle.
And thanks for your advice so far.

hinge.jpg
hinge.jpg (210.84 KiB) Viewed 34566 times
wiggsteve
 
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Re: Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby GreenLake » Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:06 pm

wiggsteve wrote:...would like to know if anyone agrees whether the loose compression post casting caused the mast hinge to buckle.


The picture you shared shows two twisted halves of a tabernacle, loosely connected by a pin on the forward starboard side. The pin is inserted into only the starboard hole on each half, and given the twist of the halves, it doesn't look like the parts could even be maneuvered so that the pin goes through two sets of holes, one on either side.

Taken together with the fact that the parts are twisted as if someone had pulled on each of the holes connected by the pin, it looks like the pin slipped out of one side, so on that side the hinge could open, but only by twisting the other side that still had the pin in it.

The background in the image is a bit confusing, part of the view seems to show beach, but part seems to show a wooden board, where I would have expected to see more deck. On the bottom left, it looks like a view of the mast partners (deck opening), with aft to the left, and the bottom of the mast in its normal position.

That means, that the pin shown is the forward pin, meaning your mast fell backwards. We don't see the aft pin as it is just out of the frame, but because the two halves come together normally towards the edge of the image, I would assume that the aft pin is inserted normally. We cannot see the other pair of holes that the port end of the forward pin should have been inserted in, nor can we see that end of the pin. So we cannot see whether it lacked a cotter pin or what else allowed it pop out of those portside holes.

It is my understanding that the tabernacle is not designed to hold the mast up by itself. There's too much leverage. However, as long as the shrouds and the forestay are holding the mast vertical, the rear pin should have been enough to keep the bottom of the mast in place.

In raising a deck-stepped mast, there's often some other line that temporarily takes the role of the forestay. You did not tell us at what stage your mast came down. In order for it to fall backwards, the line or forestay holding it must have come loose (or missing). At that point, the full leverage of the mast is on the tabernacle and if the forward pin has no cotter pin or split ring on its port side, it could slip free from the port side of the tabernacle.

At that point, the asymmetric load will bend the tabernacle, the mast will start to move and no longer being close to vertical, the bending moment due to gravity will increase. As much as a remote diagnosis can never be perfect, that is what I can read from the picture.

It's my experience that the mast partners are a tight fit for the bottom of the mast. It is not possible to shift the mast foot more than a few inches from its normal position. (I have a keel stepped mast, so I insert the whole mast through the partners, and I know if I don't line it up almost perfectly, I can't get it to go in.)

I'm not sure whether the "wiggle" from a loose mast foot was a contributing factor for the pin to pop out of the port side of the tabernacle. Possibly. But the mast would not have come down unless the forestay was loose or not connected. One of the boats I owned had a desk stepped mast that did not have a hinge, but was set into a slot (about an inch deep) that was simply designed to keep the mast foot from slipping sideways. We used the spinnaker halyard as a makeshift forestay with that boat because it had a furler which took over the function of the forestay, and therefore required the jib to be set.

As long as your mast can't jump off the tabernacle (and for that the rear pin would suffice) the shrouds and forestay should have been enough to keep it up.

Hope that gives you some useful information for your repair decisions and also how to avoid this happening again.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby wiggsteve » Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:22 pm

The failure occurred when I was raising the mast. The rear pin was inserted without issues. Once the mast was vertical , I struggled to insert the forward pin with normal effort( I owned another Day Sailor 2 and never encountered this problem with the pins). So I began to lean more and more forward on the mast attempting to lower top plate enough so that the forward pin would slip in. Not being able to do so I checked the tension on the shrouds thinking they might be too tight and enough to prevent the top plate from lowering adequately. They were tight so I tried to remove the forward pin which was now stuck through the starboard side of both plates in order to lower the mast. After more pulling on the pin I "thought" it was now stuck in the top plate only so I proceeded to lower the mast and that's when the plates buckled.
Q #1. Did the wobble in the casting prevent the plates from joining correctly?
Q #2. Did the somewhat tight shroud tension prevent the plates from joining ?
Q #3. Did my failure to completely remove the forward pin cause the plates to buckle?
Q #4. Could raising the mast single-handed without someone pulling from the bow using the forestay , etc. cause an issue. (Always single-handed my previous Oday without issues, that's why I like these boats).
Q #5. All the above?

Don't want to drain your time and energy so I will await any response and lay low afterwards. Thanks.
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Re: Re-Attach Mast Step Casting

Postby GreenLake » Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:16 pm

Thanks for clarifying the sequence.

wiggsteve wrote:
Q #1. Did the wobble in the casting prevent the plates from joining correctly?
A: possibly. It's difficult to be positive

Q #2. Did the somewhat tight shroud tension prevent the plates from joining ?
A: possibly. It's difficult to be positive.
Q #3. Did my failure to completely remove the forward pin cause the plates to buckle?
A: That question should have been answered.
Q #4. Could raising the mast single-handed without someone pulling from the bow using the forestay , etc. cause an issue. (Always single-handed my previous Oday without issues, that's why I like these boats).
A: Normally what people do is to clip an extension on the forestay and run that through a block or ring at the bow back to where they are standing. Then it's a snap to cleat it off to hold the mast in place until the forestay can be secured. You can then insert the pin or fully tension the forestay first.
Q #5. All the above?
A: Yep


Attributing a cause per Q1 and Q2 or combination isn't straightforward. If the mast step was able to move backwards at the bottom it could have tilted the lower half of the tabernacle down just a bit. Or, as you point out, tight shrouds would need a bit of pull from the forestay to overcome. And since both contribution have the same effect it is impossible to determine which predominated or whether both were required.

No prob. I'll be happy to answer any questions, as long as I have time and fun doing it.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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