New DS III Owner

Regarding the DS3 only. Note that the DS3 is not a class-legal Day Sailer.

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:54 am

A few new pictures. I finished the boat cover and the mast bag. Now my expensive New England ropes will stay out the sun most of the time when I'm not using the boat. With the boat cover, I won't have to put up with so much debris finding it's way into the boat, seems like I clean out 1/2 a tree every time I go to use the boat. Nice to have those two projects behind me. Now the last thing is to figure out where the water is getting into the bilge of the boat. After sailing for five hours on Sunday I came back in with enough water to fill up my 10 gallon dry vac that I use to suck the water out. The drain plug never seems to work, the vac is the only way I've been able to get the water out. I know it's not the centerboard wedge bolts. The water will stay in the bottom until I suck it out. I've put 3M Marine Sealant around the bolts, on the plates themselves to ensure a good seal. I've even backed up the bolts with SS nylock nuts to ensure they won't strip out as I found one had already been stripped. The plates are in nice and tight and shouldn't come out unless the fiberglass holding them in gives out. I've ordered a new drain plug set to replace the one that came with the boat. There isn't much water coming into the boat when I sail, so it's not on top like I read in one of the past post on this site. I did find an old patch on the starboard side that I'll take a second look at and see if that has given out. I can't figure where else that much water would be getting in.

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That ship you see in the background is the ship in the photo up above. Good wind on Sunday we were able to get way out onto the lake. It's been my goal to get that far out and round some of the freighters waiting to get into the Welland canal.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby K.C. Walker » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:21 pm

That boat cover looks great! Much better than my green tarp. It is amazing how much tree can end up in the boat in such a short amount of time.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:02 pm

Since this is my first boat, I'm learning how much of a collector a boat is. I had to build the cuddy cabin door to keep the wasp and other critters out. Then I had to make the cover to keep all of the other crap that gets in there out. The cover project wasn't too hard. I found white Sunbrella on ebay for 7 dollars a yard. I bought 10 yards so I could make both the mast bag and the cover. I needed 2.5 yards more but I made up that difference by going to our local Fabricland and picked out some grey outdoor fabric. I watched a few videos from SailRite to see how these covers are made. Basically, I sewed together 1.5 feet of material on both sides of the 60" wide material and then laid that over the boat. Traced the outline of the boat around the fabric, leaving enough to cover the cuddy cabin. Then I cut that out and sewed on 10" wide strip of the grey outdoor fabric. Put the 1/2" shock chord inside the grey outdoor fabric and sewed that inside. Put some patches on the inside of the cover over the wear points like cleats , the cabin edge and the mast crutch. Wah-lah! A boat cover. If anyone wants more details don't hesitate to ask.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:40 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: New DS III Owner

Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:09 pm

VERY nice stitchwork Lucas! I'm impressed! Yes, Sailrite is a great source for info on "DIY canvas". What sewing machine(s) did you use? If you can make a cockpit cover like that, you could also make a boom tent no prob, should the need ever arise ...

If you find that rainwater collects and puddles on your cockpit cover, check these out - they've all but eliminated that problem on TRW's:

http://www.vicomarine.com/guvm/?product ... ii-white-3

http://www.vicomarine.com/guvm/?product ... pport-pole

(P.S. Jacob looks like he's lovin' sailing!)
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:07 am

Thanks, Tim. Yes, I definitely have problems with water collecting on the cockpit part of the cover. I'm going to add another belt to that part to keep it tighter. But, I like this Vico Marine Vent idea enough that I'm going to buy it this week and add it to my cover. A boom tent is definitely in the works, I've been milling ideas over in my head and reading stories in forums and such. I see there are these SS rectangular pieces on my comings where it looks like this boat once had a boom tent. There are three on each side, evenly spaced over the cockpit. I wish I knew where I could get the matching hardware for those so I don't have to add anymore hardware to my boat. I've been trying real hard not to drill any more holes in the boat than I have to.

My son, Jacob wants to sleep out in the boat so much. I definitely have to get going on the boom tent. But, I'll need to add nav and anchor lights to the boat to make that possible. Jacob really loves sailing, mostly when the boat is clipping along, heeled over with water close to the side of the boat and spray coming over the cabin. He likes to stand out on the cabin top and scream his bloody head off. It's like watching Lieutenant Dan on Forest Gump when they were in the storm looking for shrimp.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:36 pm

The DS cockpit cover does not need the vent part of the boat vent so much as it needs the load spread out a bit at the peaks (I put 2 of 'em on my cockpit cover).

Since you are already familiar with 60" bolt widths of fabric and so forth, I can tell you that you can easily make a boom tent from 2 bolt widths, fore to aft. See my gallery for pix/info. If you're interested, PM me about patterns.

Looking at those rectangular fittings on your side decks, I'm wondering if maybe they aren't receivers for some sort of "bows" for holding up a cockpit cover? You might be able to make something that would utilize those, instead of getting the boat vents, and also utilize them for boom tent tie downs? Of course, as you say, it would depend on finding the corresponding fittings. Could you post a nice closeup of one of them? In one of your pics there's a partial view of one - almost looks like a "key slot", but I would expect the opening to be facing outboard rather than inboard if they are for a boom tent? Definitely inboard for bows. Looks to me like a fitting that might accept one of these vang keys or similar:

http://www.intensitysails.com/hoalcuvakeyf.html

Nav and anchor lights are a piece of cake: just get the clamp on LED nav lights (it's really easy to use the forward stemhead bolt to mount a bracket for the red/green bow light), or rig some permanent ones if you have a standing 12V system. For an anchor light, if you don't want to install permanent, just use the main halyard to haul an LED lantern up the topping lift, stopping it just short of the mast so it doesn't drive you (and any neighbors!) crazy all night banging against said mast! You'll also want to bungee your halyards away from the mast (use the stays) for the same reason. ;-P

There is nothing quite like the first time you spend the night aboard your boat - it's magical, and Lt. Dan, er, um, I mean Jacob, will love it!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:42 pm

Hi Tim,

I'll definitely check out those pictures in the gallery on your boom tent. I'll start looking for the clamp on lights and a lantern to hang as an anchor light. Jacob would definitely appreciate that I did that for him.

I'm still going for that vent. I took the cover off today and a huge cloud of humidity enveloped me. Wow!

You asked about my sewing machine. It's an early 1980's New Home made by Pfaff that my mom gave to me. It's a heavy duty machine that was one of the early computerized sewing machines. She bought it when she worked at a Sewing Center. She doesn't sew as much anymore and let me have it in exchange for this cheapy model that I had. I also have a Janome Serger, that helps with putting seams together. I think these covers could be made by just about any decent machine out there. The trick is to not make the seams too thick and use a jeans (#14) or a leather (#18) needle. Use a single fold instead of a double fold, they work just as well.

Here's pictures of that hardware on my boat. I think at one time this boat had all the options you could get. I find hardware like this on my boat that was obviously for something. There's a lock tab for the cabin door but no cabin door, spinnacker blocks and mast eyes but no spinnacker or whisker pole, motor mount but no motor, and then there are these things.

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Making a boom tent using shock poles for tents could be the way to go. A nice round shelter without using the boom. I think 4 metres of sunbrella should do it and some no-see-um netting and a pair of zippers.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:56 pm

You will definitely want lights for overnighting (Duh Tim - aren't you the master of stating the obvious!). You only need the nav lights if you will actually sail and/or motor at night, but you'll need the anchor light no matter what (although in my experience, most small boat skippers anchored to shore don't bother with them, especially in protected coves and such). A couple of decent headlights are a good idea, the kind you strap to your forehead, as well as one of the round, silver LED lights to hang inside your boom tent or whatever cockpit shelter you decide on making. But, hey, whatever makes Jacob happy! ;-P

Your cover probably traps a lot more moisture than mine - I just have it snapped to the coamings in several places around the edge. So, yeah, you might want the vents after all.

Pfaffs are great machines! I knew you must have been working with some kind of at least semi-heavy duty machine - most of the home models these days are built WAY too cheaply to do this kind of work. Sergers are good too, but you have to keep in mind that it is not a lockstitch machine, so be careful not to use it in any areas where raveling of stitches could be an issue. Does that model Pfaff do a double or triple throw zig zag? If so, you could also use it for basic sail repair and maintenance. And as you say, needle size is critical, especially if you are sewing with any heavier threads like E or FF, and speaking of thread, polyester is best, as nylon will never hold up to the UV.

As to those fittings, definitely something meant to accept some sort of "key", and a "snap-in" arrangement too, judging by the little "dimples" on each side of the slot opening. I like your thinking on the "non-boom boom tent"! Haven't tried it yet, but I think mine *could* be stand-alone, without the fore and aft peaks attached to the boom, but I've yet to try that. Will have to on the next trip. I've seen lots of folks with beach cats and similar just cut the floor out of a regular backpacking dome tent and plop the thing right down on the tramp, sometimes w/o any attachment to the boat at all! ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:23 am

Tim, you know way more about sewing than I do. I know enough to be dangerous, as the saying goes. I bought a spool of Sunbrella thread that should be UV resistant. I do know the stuff is really hard to break, ripping seams is a PITA. Haven't had to do too many but the few that I had was rough.

Took the boat out yesterday. Very light winds, practiced using the jib - good day for it. Jacob was begging to sleep overnight on the boat. I'll get there.

Still having problems with leaking. I sealed up the joint between the CB and the cabin but no luck, still took on a lot of water in the bilge. Not sure where else it could be coming in at. After solving this problem then that should be it, the boat will be sound.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
NoCashOnBoard
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:40 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Re: New DS III Owner

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:42 pm

Lucas, you already know more about sewing than 99.9% of the guys out there, and I suspect more than 99.9% of the genpop! The fact that you consider needle sizes and thread types assures me of that. Knowing enough to be dangerous means that you know enough to keep learning ... ;-P

That thread you got should be fine, and remember: the harder it is to pick out, the better it will hold when you don't need to pick it out.

Glad to hear you had a good sail - sounds a lot like the light air sailing we had down here yesterday - bobbin' 'n' bakin'!

I've come to the conclusion that the DS2 will take on water in the bilge no matter what, given a certain set of circumstances. Thought TRW's was dry until the FL 120 this year, when after pounding thru serious waves and chop on the 3rd day, the bilge was full again. Discovered some new cracks around the forward end of the CB trunk that will need some attention, but now my efforts are really focused on the CB bolt, which I suspect is leaking. This will be a challenge, since TRW's CB bolt is encased in some kind of nuclear-war-proof goop that I can't seem to remove ... :-(
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1208
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Location: RIVERSIDE, CA

Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:53 am

Tim, thanks for the compliments on the sewing. I look at the sewing machine as a power tool, but going into the fabric store is a little daunting. :oops:

The leaks are frustrating. I've been over the entire bottom of my boat when I redid the bottom paint and didn't find any cracks or holes. Since this is a DSIII I don't have the through-bolt design, instead I have the wedges. The water inside sits around those wedge plate bolts and nothing is coming out the bottom. Like I mentioned before, I even backed up the bolts with SS nylock nuts because one of the bolts-hole threads was stripped. I was hoping that would have solved the problem but I still have lots of water in the bilge - like 10 gallons after a 4 hour sail. I'll be replacing the transom plug fitting this week, but I have little hope that is the problem.

What I'm thinking is the inner centerboard case is cracked. I've put my hand down the inspection holes and even cut a new hole in front of the center board to see what is going on. Feels like there is a sandwich between the hull and the top part of the centerboard case. I could be wrong on this but that is what it feels like. The Yacht Club that sold it to me said they would put the boat in the water every season using a lift, he showed me some extra shackles on the chain plates they used for that purpose. But, he didn't show me the other attachment points - I see there is an extra bale attached to the centerboard case just forward of the mainsheet standup block. I'm wondering if they used that as the third point and somehow they cracked the case doing that. It's just a theory at this point.

I'm going to put the boat in the water this weekend and just see where the water is flowing in. It's got to be coming in pretty good to fill up that much. Otherwise, I'll try a pressure test using air and see if I can feel where it's coming out. I hope I don't have to do a centerboard case surgery. :shock:
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:51 pm

Just curious as to how one would accomplish an air pressure test? Seems to me you'd need some pretty good compressor firepower to accomplish such a thing on such a large volume? Or is the idea to create just enough positive pressure inside the bilge to be able to hear a "wheeze" at any area that is compromised? Or a better way might be the old sudsy water trick like you use on a leaky tire, since whatever you use to create the pressure is likely to be noisy? Now that I think about it, for the setup, maybe a shop vac w/ the hose on the out port would be a better way to put the air in - maybe through one of the inspection ports. How to create a seal around the hose and the port rim though?
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:43 pm

Tim, you definitely do not want a large amount of overpressure. You could blow apart your boat! Sudsy water is the watch word.

Something like a vacuum run in reverse, with a by-pass, so that air can continue to flow, even though pressure has been applied.
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:44 pm

I guess I figured that if you already know you have a leak(s), then you're not too worried about blowing the boat apart, since you know you already have a by-pass(es) ... ?

Not even sure that the "bilge pressure test" would work to determine whether or not you have the dreaded "DS2 uphaul bilge leak", since you'd need a way to find out if air was escaping out of that wee little hole waaaay up in the trunk ... ?

If you *do* happen to blow the boat apart, then congratulations! You *used* to have an air-/water-tight bilge! ;-P

Don't wanna do that tho, so that's why I suggested the shop vac idea in the first place ...

I'm definitely going to pursue some sort of test like this on TRW. There are leaks as yet unfound. Every time I step down into the cockpit from the cuddy roof I hear a big "wheeze", and dammit I wanna know where that wheeze is coming from!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: RIVERSIDE, CA

Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:47 pm

I think I figured out the source of the leak, it's probably the transom plug after all. I have not taken the boat out to test if that is definitely where the leak is coming from. Hopefully, Saturday I'll be able to go for a ride and see if that water leak has been sealed. I had ordered a new transom plug and base, while waiting for it to come in the mailbox I pulled out the old one. There was no sealant left on the old base at all, it just came right out. Then I noticed all the water around the hole that was exposed. I easily dug my finger up inside the transom the length of my finger. The transom is totally soaked. I cut an access hole in the starboard side seat near the back to look at the inside of the hole. I was surprised to find there was no liner or protection from the inside to the wood. The transom plug base was not long enough or even sealed to prevent water from getting to the inner transom wood. I pulled off a section of fiberglass to see how bad the problem was and found rot throughout the transom. The transom with the fiberglass is plenty strong and I don't plan on putting dual 150 hp Evinrudes on the back. I'm going to leave well enough alone for now and sealed the transom back up (with fiberglass) and put a new inspection port over the hole on the starboard seat. I covered up the transom hole completely and any water that does get into the bilge I'll just pump out with my manual pump or my wet/dry vac. Besides, the transom plug drain never worked well - the water always stayed inside the boat until I pumped it out. Now I'll never have to remember to put the plug in before I sail. Here's some pictures for you:

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Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:40 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

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