New DS III Owner

Regarding the DS3 only. Note that the DS3 is not a class-legal Day Sailer.

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:24 pm

GreenLake - you are the voice of reason and wisdom. I like the way you think and write your thoughts down. You have given me much food for thought. For now, I'll try out the paddles as I potter around the area I plan to sail in. In the beginning I don't plan on going far from shore until I feel confident that I can handle the boat in a competent manner. I went down to the boat dock at Municipal Beach in St. Catharines, Ontario the other day to just check out the situation down there. Looks like there's a broad flat open area to just go back and forth, trying out the standing and running rigging and maybe even play with the ground tackle. I don't feel I'll have much competition for this area next spring as the lake is running a bit low these days. And most power boaters will be farther off spraying their roosters tails all over the place. Jet skiers will probably vie for this area but I think it will be fine. I'll progress through the steps you outlined in an earlier post, thanks for the suggestions.

The boat doesn't come with a motor. I'll have enough expenses next spring with outfitting my car with a hitch and getting all the necessary safety equipment like life jackets. I'll also have to leave some room for any repairs to the trailer and boat as needed. As I wander farther and farther afield I may have to look into other means of propulsion.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby kokko » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:47 pm

I bought the hitch for my car on the web. It may have been from hitchusa.com. The dealer wanted $700. The local hitch place $500. Bought it online for $175. You can look up the hitches by make, model and year of car. The also post install instructions so you can decide if you are up to the install. The instructions for mine were remove four bolts, put hitch in place, then thread in four bolts. 15 minutes
The front hitch I installed on my inlaws Tahoe was more complex and I had to remove the front trim panel. Two hours.
The wiring harness from the dealer may be worth paying for. I have had a lot of trouble when my trailer wires were spliced into the tail lights.
Greenlake - feel free to move this to a different forum
DS1 Truelove
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby GreenLake » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:45 pm

@Kokko: This is one of those mixed-use & all-purpose threads with wide-ranging discussion, so there's really no single best home for it. It's also not one where any one user has hi-jacked the discussion half-way through, so it really makes no use to split it. I'll leave it to Lucas as the original poster to decide whether he wants to start asking specific questions in specific parts of the forum or continue his thread documenting his process of discovery as a new DSIII owner. If you want to put your info on trailer hitches someplace where people can find it without a search engine, I would have no objections if you were to start a new thread on towing issues in Miscellaneous, even if you were to essentially repeat what you posted here. It's clearly useful.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby jeadstx » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:38 pm

Lucas,

The other day I was on my tablet and it is usually hit or miss whether my posts will post to the forum. Here is my information on using oars with my DSII which is not that much different than your boat. I installed oars on my boat in 2010 for use as auxillary power while sailing the Texas coast on the Tx200. I didn't want to carry gasoline for an outboard and I felt the boat would be loaded heavy for 5 days of sailing and I decided I did not want to use a heavy battery for an electric motor. So I decided to put oars on my boat like many of the other small boats on the event. I had initially tried paddling the boat with poor success. I had seen on this forum that a few others had added oars, so that I decided would be my course as well.

The oarlocks are placed in line with the mainsheet attachment at the aft end of the centerboard trunk. I installed 4" inspection ports to bolt my oarlocks to the boat. I placed my ports forward of where I wanted my oarlocks with the idea of being able to access my jib tracks as well. My mistake was using a 4" port and placing them forward. The port should have been a 5" (maybe 6") rather than 4". The 4" port is too small to work with. The port also should have been dedicated to the oarlocks.

The rowing seat I made was from 1x8 or a 1x10 board (can't remember) that was cut long enough to span the width inside the cockpit with the ends supported by the seats and the center supported by the centerboard trunk. Because of the angle of the seat tops I put small blocks on each end to deal with the angle. In the center I put blocks on the board on each side of the centerboard trunk to keep the board centered for rowing. There are posts on the forum concerning oars and some better rowing seats than mine.

The oars that I am using are too short, only about 7' long (it was all I could get at the time. The oars really need to be about 8.5' long. I originally stored my oars along the cockpit on the side deck to keep them out of the way. I attached harness staples that would use 1" nylon straps to tie them down. Problem was that the oar would foul the jib sheets while sailing. I moved the oars to the inside of the cockpit storing them at the base of the seat and the cockpit sole. As I recall this is long enough to accomidate about an 8.5' oar. On the stern end I installed a loop to fit the blade in and about 2/3 forward of the stern I installe a staple for a 1" nylon strap to secure the oar. With one securing strap and the blade end in the loop it is easier to get the oars out when needed. When I have the boat heavily loaded for camp cruising, I store the rowing seat in the stern strapped down across the seats, sometimes with a solar panel mounted above.

The DS will row well with maybe about 6" of centerboard down to help the boat track and to reduce rocking. I suggest having a topping lift to keep the boom from hitting you in the head while rowing. I tried it without a topping lift, no fun.

These days I also carry a 2.5hp LEHR propane outboard. According to the manual, a one pound cylinder (short green propane cylinders) will last 57 minutes at full throtle. From use, I would say that is correct, longer when not a full throttle. Changing cylinders is fairly easy and quick. The motor can work with an external tank as well. When putting the motor up, just pull the cylinder out. The motors have the noise of a standard outboard, but not the odor.

For rowing hardware, you might want to check out Duckworks http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/ For anything Day Sailer I strongly recommend D&R Marine.

John
Attachments
New Oar Storage.jpg
New Oar Storage.jpg (104.55 KiB) Viewed 12066 times
Oar Lock Placement.JPG
Oar Lock Placement.JPG (112.46 KiB) Viewed 12066 times
Rowing Seat.jpg
Rowing Seat.jpg (120.65 KiB) Viewed 12066 times
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby GreenLake » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:02 pm

Lucas, I'd second John in that the 7' would probably be too short. It's possible to row the boat, I've rowed someone's DS with that setup, but the ergonomics are poor. Better than paddling, but not something I would do for the long haul.

I'm surprised the oars fouled the jib sheets when stored on the side deck. On my DS1, I routinely store paddles on the side deck and never had them interfere with the sheets. After using them, I place paddles flat with blade wedged between stays and cuddy walls, which keeps the paddles on board without anything else to secure them. I stick the paddle forward, turn it, so it lies down flat, and pull back to wedge it in place. (After they have dried out, I store them under the side deck - that's a space not available on later DS models).

Storing them the oars the other way around, handle to the front, might possibly provide something that the jib sheet could wrap around.

Now, with paddles, John's current solution (inside the cockpit, against the seats) would seem to work well on a DSIII.

I looked at the launch you mentioned online. It's pretty open water, so you'd want to watch your forecast carefully and, especially when first getting used to your boat, try to sail at times when the wind is coming onshore; it's psychologically much easier not having to beat upwind to return home. But it can be harder to kill your speed on landing with the wind from behind. Something that you should think through carefully and plan out ahead of time. The usual thing would be to head into the wind a bit from shore, lower the main, then sail in under jib alone (and let the sheets fly to take the power out of it). In those conditions, a paddle, held vertically, makes a nice emergency brake.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:17 am

Again, lots of very good information here.

Towing & Trailering - I'm just going to use the Versa even though the manual says, 'Not recommended for towing'. Like many articles I have read, it doesn't say, 'Don't Tow' just 'Not recommended...' What ever that means. I know this can go into many lengthy discussions on warranties and transmissions and all kinds of stuff. I just don't see how a 1,000 lb trailer with a tongue weight of 100 lbs is going to do anything to my car. Like I said, a Corolla has a 1500 lb towing capacity with a 1.8 litre engine (same size as the Versa) and a Camry is rated as 'Not recommended for towing'. When I look at the overseas specs for the Versa they rate the car at over 1500 lbs. I think a lot of this has to do with legalities in North America and it's going to be seen with more and more new cars. A couple of years ago I was thinking about getting a camper and that is when I discovered this new phenomenon that cars are no longer rated as being able to tow. I was thinking about getting another car but everything I could think of driving including a Ford Fusion is rated as 'Not recommended for towing'. Many more people in the future are going to find themselves in this predicament when they want to tow something lightweight like this boat or a small yard trailer. I found a Class 1 hitch (2000 lbs) from all the hitch manufacturers for the Versa for around 150 plus a light kit that just plugs into the sockets for the lights (no splicing!). $200 for the whole shebang and she'll be ready to tow. I found a storage lot near my house I plan to launch, just a few kilometers, low speeds, low traffic. Perfect.

Rowing - you have given me much thoughts on this and I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for letting me know the length of the oars. The longest I can find are 8', looks like a bit longer and I'll have it. Thanks for the pictures as well - that gives me a good idea of what I need to do.

Launching - yip, that's going to be interesting. :lol: I'll have to check the weather before I go and see what kind of trouble I'll get into. I can only imagine what is going to happen. I should probably just do this on my own for the first few trips before I put the family aboard and scare the hell out of them. I have a friend at work who is a sailing instructor, I'll get some help from him and see how to do this. Maybe I can have him come out on my launch day to help me get things squared up before I make a total disaster out of my first time in a sailboat. I've been in all other kinds of boats but never a sailboat.

I've got so much to think about when I launch this boat for the first time. First is just rigging this unfamiliar boat. I found rigging instructions for the boat and I've read a lot of books on this but nothing like doing it the first time and trying to figure out how it all goes. Then I got to get the whole mess down to the ramp and the boat in the water. Oh man, I've been watching videos on YouTube and find that this can get very interesting. I've back up my car with a trailer before, but just being nervous and worked up may make for a few mistakes. Then once I get her afloat and put the car back in the parking lot, then I'll have to see what happens when I put the sails up. I know the basics, but once again - nothing like doing it for the first time.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby jeadstx » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:11 pm

You said you have a friend who is a sailing instructor. It would be a good idea to go out with him a couple times. He can show you how to set things up and help you get a feel for the boat. If not your friend, contact other sailors in your area, most are willing to help someone new to sailing.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby GreenLake » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:18 pm

Lucas, looks like you got the towing figured out. Getting the trailer down the ramp - you'll figure that one out as well. Steer small, and, if you don't know that trick yet, the trailer will go the way the bottom of your steering wheel goes.

Get your friend to do more than just help you rig it the first time, if at all possible, but like John said, bribe him to come out with you on the first trip (or two). I had sailed on single-sail sailboats before I got my DS, but having an experienced friend on the maiden voyage made all the difference. We ended up breaking the jib track, because the PO hadn't fastened it properly after a repair. Trying to jury-rig something on an unfamiliar boat is extra challenging, and having the extra pair of hands was a relief in that situation. So, assistance of the knowledgeable kind is highly recommended.

If you have the space in your yard, dry-rigging the DS isn't a bad idea. I didn't do that, but with the help of my friend we were able to do it at the launch site -- I think it was mid-week and a bit early in the season, so we had the place to ourselves.

A knowledgeable friend will also be able to let you know when weather conditions are acceptable for a trial run. In my case, we ended up with a bit more wind than I would have been able to comfortably handle on my own, but that was OK. Neither one of us counted on being greeted by thunder on reaching the launch on our way back. With the best preparation, something's still going to not go the way you planned it :).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby jeadstx » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:59 pm

Since you are new to sailboats, one thing to watch out for when putting the boat in the water or pulling out are power/telephone lines stretched across the ramp area. Most ramps are good about not having lines in the way, but there are still some that have a line that the mast can hit. When I was about 20 ( a little over 40 years ago) I hit a line with my dad's boat (first time I ever pulled the boat out of the water) and broke the mast in two. That was fun to explain to my dad. Just be careful of towing with mast up around tree branches and wires.

Whenever I get to a ramp I've never launched from before, I survey the area for such things. Another reason to have someone experienced with you the first time or two.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby GreenLake » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:43 pm

I've lost a Windex or two in tree branches, luckily not the mast, while sailing. They reach farther than it appears. :oops:
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby Alan » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:35 am

I'm a highly-qualified expert on lowering your mast in a hurry. Here's what you do:

1. Carefully scout a route from the launch ramp, through the pine trees, to the trailer parking area so you can de-rig after pulling out.

2. Pull boat out, and at the same time fail to notice a low-hanging power line passing through the trees you've scouted.

3. Pull forward slowly and carefully, watching the tree branches, until you hear a loud BOOM.

4. Stop, assess damage, reconsider the wisdom of sailing.

5. Let the whole thing settle in for five or six months, then cautiously re-reconsider.

6. Make marina reservations for next year.
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:05 pm

Alan - you have me on the floor laughing my guts out! That's too darn funny! :lol:
I looked into marina fees and they are a bit expensive for my budget. It would be nice to have their support and be able to launch the boat right there but I just can't afford $600 for a five month period. I know that doesn't sound like much but that's the way things are for me. I can get a storage lot for 40 bucks a month and bring the boat home and put it in the driveway for a bit to work on it.

Everyone else's encouragement to get my friend out definitely has me considering some good bribes to lure him out to the lake for a fun afternoon of teaching a newbie how to sail. I'll figure out if he's a wino or a beer guzzler and get him his drink of choice as a bribe after he's taught me the ropes, (sheets, halyards, lines - sorry :oops: ).

I've read several books where they say the first thing to do before you start setting up your boat is to look up. Good bit of advice, I probably should have that printed on a sticker and put it somewhere obvious in several places.

Lot of this reminds me of my motorcycling days, there is so much to learn before you grab the handle bars and roll on throttle. It scared me to death to think about it and then I would read some more and then recover. Then I finally did it, just bought the darn thing and brought it home. That's when I had to put everything into motion and learn how to ride this expensive beast. I did it and it was darn scary but I got used to it and kept going. I remember the first time I did 80 kmh (about 50 mph), that blew my mind. I couldn't believe how fast that felt in the open air. But, it was addictive and I wanted more. I kept riding and riding. It was a lot of fun, I met a lot of really impressive people and saw a lot of open roads. Something I'm glad I pursued and had the courage to keep going.

Now things are different and I have a little one to look after. Not that I don't feel motorcycling is safe, it is. You just got to know how much you want to hang out there and take the risks no further. Much of this goes with sailing or any other sport. With sailing I can take my little one along and give him something to apply his endless energy towards. I think he'll really enjoy it a lot.

I'm just dying here, waiting for spring to arrive. I can't wait to get my hands on that boat and see what I got to work with.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby GreenLake » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:47 pm

One of the places I launch has a cable strung along the street separating it from the parking. As much as the motor boaters want to encourage me, there's no help for it, but to rig on the ramp (over to the side of it, of course) and on race nights we manage half-a dozen dinghies that way. Don't let anyone spook you into trailering with the mast up, not further than the few feet the power boats pull forward to the place they fit their tie-downs.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby ChrisB » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:47 pm

Lucas,

On your tow vehicle question, I have towed my DSII with a Toyota Corolla (including through the NC mountains). Also towed it with a Honda Civic. Had no issues with either. Still have the Corolla and it has 200k miles on the original engine & trans. Unless your Versa has a CVT automatic, it will do fine for short hauls. Most small cars with CVT auto trans don't recommend towing anything.


Chris
Chris B.
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Re: New DS III Owner

Postby NoCashOnBoard » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:52 pm

Thanks Chris for the info. The Versa has a CVT but it was also offered in 2009 with a regular auto trans and a manual. But, none of these have a tow rating other than 'not recommended for towing'. While the Rogue and the Murano although larger vehicles do have CVTs and can tow. I think the whole 'towing' thing is very muddle today. None of it makes sense anymore. I towed my 2500 lb. I-MiEV with the Versa for a short ways, it felt like the car wasn't even back there. The Versa is almost six years old, well out of warranty and I don't feel I'll be doing any damage to the car by towing this boat that short distance. I'm just going to do it for now.

My next problem is finding boat launches. I have the one nearby that I'm grateful for, but I was thinking as my skills progress I may want to venture farther out. I started looking for other public boat launches. That seems like a big secret, I have not found a reliable listing of boat launches in the Ontario province. I just found another one for Lake Erie. Is this some kind of conspiracy? The rest of the launches are marinas or paid municipal launches. I guess everyone wants their cut these days.
Lucas Parrish
1986 DaySailer 3 (first boat ever!)
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Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:40 am
Location: Niagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

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