A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

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A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby JimTan » Tue May 31, 2022 12:36 pm

Hi, my name is Jim from Winnipeg, MB Canada.
I recently pick up a Falcon 16 sailing dinghy and started my sail around the world dream. :D
As a newbie, my original though was buy a boat and have fun with it. After I receive the boat, I soon realized there are months of work before I can get the boat on water.
The boat require me to cut out the floor and replace all stringers and maybe some extra structure reinforcement. If you have information relate to that, I love to hear from you.

Since I will have to invest more than what it is worth, I like to make it a boat I can travel with.
I plan to make this small boat into a "cruising camper". Use the boat to solo circle around Lack Winnipeg. (A 1,800 km trip)

Below are my questions.
I have seen many rigging plans which are modify for racing. Is there a rigging plan that maximize sailing comfort?
What I main sailing comfort include below point.
1. maximize cockpit space
2. minimize sheet operation.
3. easy control and minimize heeling (It can go slow)
4. boom tent for overnight sleep

Because I am going to do some work on the structure, I am thinking I maybe able to build some storage compartment.
How should I organize storage space and weight distribution?
I have a Minn Kota Endura 30lb trolling motor came with the boat. Where is the best place to put battery for comfort?

If there is a book I can read and learn more, please share the info with me.
Thank you very much.
JimTan
 
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby JimTan » Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:52 pm

I found a website full of information, hope it help others too.


http://www.wayfarer-international.org/W ... ndex2.html
JimTan
 
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:19 pm

Jim, welcome to the forum. This forum is targeted at owners of the O'Day DaySailer, but at 16'9" it seems our boats are in the same size class as yours. Many issues around cruising should readily apply across a range of similar boats, so I hope we can learn from you and you can learn from us. Few of us would be familiar with a Falcon 16, so tell us a bit more about your boat. From a quick peak at SailboatData.com there are many apparent similarities and a few differences (such as narrower beam and integrated ballast compared to the DS).

Where do you plan to sail your boat and what kinds of cruising do you have in mind? Open boats like yours or the DS routinely participate in "cruising in company" style events, even for extended distances like the Texas 200. It's possible to put gear, food and water for two people for a five day 200 mile cruise.

When adding storage make sure to not compromise your built-in flotation, which is an important safety factor. Generally, you'd like all gear and supplies stowed (near the mast) with heavy items (batteries) placed low. If you feel you need a house battery, consider creating a dedicated place for it near the mast step.

A well designed set of shelves (or stacking / stuffable containers) may help you in managing your stowage so you can get more easily at the things you need. It might even be an idea to look into creating a hatch for your cuddy opening. It would help keep out any rain, but also prevents stuff from getting lost if you ever have a capsize. There are some designs for hatches discussed here on the forum, but they tend to be for those models where there's already a partial bulkhead. You may need to consider creating this in sections, so the pieces remain manageable, but also consider something like a net on the outside to hold items you need underway - and a hatch in a hatch (like a door in a stable door) to allow you quick access at some items you keep at hand in the cuddy. Perhaps on hooks on the side. A friend built a hatch where the top segment could fold down so the entire top/rear part of the stowage could be accessible under way.

For sleeping on board: If you do it right, the boards from the hatch could the be correct size to fill in the space next to the cockpit seats so that they become wide enough to use as sleeping platforms. Modern tents are so small and light that it might make more sense to either use a single person one as is, on your sleeping platform, or to take the bottom out a larger one and use it instead of a traditional boom tent. Or get the metal collapsible tent hoops to augment a boom tent so it's a half circle, not a triangle. That should give you more room. The fabrics are so light, it should be easy to just cannibalize an existing one. Let us know what you come up with, or what designs appeal to you.

Your question about your structural repairs is a bit specific to your boat type, so this forum, and particularly this section of it, is probably not the best place to discuss that. You are welcome to look through the many older posts here, many of which describe specific structural repairs or general techniques. I'm sure, if you spent a few evenings poking around the archived posts you'll find many answers to questions you may not even knew you had.

Finally: is there a "cruising rig"?

First, you describe yourself as a newbie. The last thing you should do, without sailing experience, is go and try your hand at rig design. You're much better off sailing your boat for a season or two and figure out what really does or doesn't work for you. If your boat is unavailable due to structural repairs, find someone in your area who will sail with you (even if it's on a different type of boat). That experience will let you master the basic concepts and prevent you from making any number of bad decisions because you will now how certain things are supposed to work in a range of conditions.

Second, I sometimes think that too few sail controls are worse than too many. Some controls that can look superfluous to a beginner are actually essential if you want to be able to weather a range of conditions in your boat. Even if the go beyond the most basic controls. A boom vang will allow you to keep your sail flat, even if you let out some main sheet during a gust. A flat sail will not suddenly start to power up when your reason to let out the sail was to help depower your rig. Having your boat work with you instead of against you makes all the difference on a long cruise. A set (or better two or even three) of reef points is essential if your cruising grounds can experience stronger winds. Without reef points, your only option is to douse your sail completely and either drift, or rely on the motor to get you out of the situation.

Third, you should set things up so you can confidently sail in any conditions that you realistically expect (other than dead calm). The rig should be your primary mode of propulsion, as much as possible. With that mindset, you won't skimp on some of the add-ons you'll need in stronger winds, and you'll also be more cautious about going out when you are not sure you can come home under sail (again, except being becalmed).

Lastly, be prepared to begin a lifetime of learning. Many people describe that aspect of sailing as the one that keeps them interested. You'll make your unavoidable beginner's mistakes, but hopefully ones that let you walk away and learn from them. Good luck!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby JimTan » Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:34 pm

Thank you very much GreenLake.
You suggestion is very helpful.
I plan to take sailing lesson next year. Hope that is going to help me a learn some basic skills.
My first plan with this little boat is cruising around Lake Winnipeg. It is the largest lake in Manitoba, and it is the twelfth largest in the world, with a surface area of 9430 square miles.
I have found some wind condition info.
Wind.PNG
Wind.PNG (96.82 KiB) Viewed 3817 times

Should be able to get supplies within 200 mile range.
I will look into building a hatch when I restore the boat.
Thanks again for your help and advices.
I will take small steps and ask questions. I understand that I need all the skills to make sure I can make my way back.
JimTan
 
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:27 am

So many things.

First. That's definitely one large lake. Some parts of it have significant fetch, that is open stretches over which the wind can build up waves. It is also very shallow, meaning that waves may run out of depth and therefore turn into breaking waves. All those things should throw up some caution signs and red flags.

I wonder whether you would be better served if you could locate a (much) smaller lake to do your first attempts at sailing. Something on the order of a mile across, but preferably with no hills near shore (those can swirl up the wind in ways that make sailing unpleasant).

I like that you are starting your own research, and by that I don't mean that you are doing your own experiments or basic science, but that you are looking for available information. Keep looking and keep reading! Read as much as you can about boats, sailing, people who have done expeditions in small boats, and all those things, even if you are more immediately concerned with restoring your boat.

About that: is the boat simply not seaworthy as is, or is it able to be put to water, etc. but not fine for an expedition? If it is still in good enough shape to be put in the water on some protected small lake, I would encourage you to do that from the perspective that you'll learn a lot about how the boat feels, how you'll sit in it, and all sorts of things that may help you in getting your restoration more perfect. (This advice does not work, if the boat is clearly not seaworthy -- only you know the true state of your boat).

About reading: did you read the thread on Basic Concepts and Techniques here on this forum? Keep coming back. First, if you re-read things after a bit, some will start to make sense in ways you didn't pick up right away, but there also may be more over time.

Sailing lessons are great, but they should be more effective if what you hear isn't entirely new, so you can focus on letting the instructor help putting it into perspective. Also, if you've prepared a bit you will "see" things on the boat that you are doing your practice on that you would not even notice otherwise. I can always tell a good sailor by what they notice. (Full disclaimer: I've never taken a sailing lesson, but I have attended a Safety at Sea seminar).

About wind data: Looking at wind data is a good start, but in your picture, it's unclear what they mean. Are they in km/h, knots, or m/s? Knowing that would make a huge difference. Also, do I understand that these simply list max-min for that hour for the whole month?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby tomodda » Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:23 pm

Jim:

Welcome to the forum. Baby steps is the way to go with your new boat. Set yourself some goals and do what you need to in order to reach them.

When I bought my boat, my first goal (after getting her home), was to fix up the interior enough that my wife would sit in it! Deep cleaning, new bilge paint, new seats, check flotation, make sure my lifejackets were seaworthy and clean. And a general check-over of the trailer.. check wiring, lights working, repack the hubs (this last part was the MOST work of all!).

Next goal was to get her in the water and putt-putt around on the motor a bit. Went well, but as GL pointed out, it taught me a few things about what needed to be tweaked and/or repaired. Then my goal was to get the mast up, rigged, sails set.. this in the driveway, leave rigging afloat for later. Again learned a lot (and daydreamed a lot while raising the sails for the first time!). Then my goal was to get on the water and SAIL for the first time. Learning again :). And on, and on.. every time I sail I learn a little something and almost always break something! or at least note down something new to tweak. It's all part of the process, and - frankly - the FUN of having a boat. Even when I'm not sailing (like when I'm repainting the boat), I'm still sailing in my mind, still tinkering, still having fun. All good.

Now, let's talk about the process of learning to sail. Take it slow, of course. But within reason, you can teach yourself to sail. The DS is extremely forgiving and a great boat to learn on. Obviously, choose your weather carefully... moderate winds (5-8 knots), blowing TOWARDS your launch point, and no thunderstorms in the forecast. Do lots of daysailing, learn step by step. If you can get an experienced sailor to "show you the ropes" on your boat or theirs, then so much the better. Read the thread that GreenLake referred you to, it's all you need to know.

Your proposed cruise is a great goal to work towards. Not something I'd do in my first year of learning to sail... but certainly well within the realm of the possible with our little DaySailers. I won't write about all the in's and out's of what's needed to do such a cruise, because this is something where you have to learn it on your own. In other words, you have to get enough knowledge to know what you don't know.... and then figure out how to learn it. That process is what will turn you into a sailor who can handle anything that Lake Winnipeg can throw at you. Sailing is a lot of fun, but it's certainly not about instant gratification. Think of it more like gardening (one of my other obsessions), it's life-long learning. I certainly hope that you fall in love with it, always good to have a fellow sailor on the water!

Best,

Tom
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby JimTan » Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:29 am

Thank you very much GreenLake, I will find a small lake to start.
Can I do it in Red River, Winnipeg? There is a public dock and launch 8 km from my house.
I will print the Basic Concepts and Techniques. That is very good info. Thanks a lot.

Hi Tom. I just clean the boat. And now sits in it every day after dinner pretend I am sailing.
Working to understand how tiller/mainsheet work together. How to duck the boom and cross to the other of the boat. Lu my wife think I am little creasy. :lol:

This is the experimental project leading into my retirement live on water and sail around the world project. (20 years from now)
I plan to use this project to learn boat structure, fiberglass work, basic sailing skill, marine communication skill, voyage planning and provisions. (5 years plan)
Also test to see if I can handle the loneliness for long distant trip and being in bad weather condition and wet all day long.

Yes, I am in my research stage now. Try to gather all the great advices.

The boat is water tight, but all stringers and crossmembers are rotted out. I like to cut the floor and replace them. At the same time add a layer of 1708 to make sure no leak.
Plan to add a auto bilge pump and solar panel battery pack. Learn a little about marine wiring.
Both front and rare flotation compartment looks okay. For this boat, the mast is step on deck. I like to add more support to that.

Thank you very much for both of you.
JimTan
 
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Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby JimTan » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:26 am

I have put myself on the waiting list of Pinawa Marina.
It is much smaller water body.
It make up by Natalle lake, Syivia Lake, Eleanor Lake, Nutimk Lake, Numao Lake.
Thank you very much for your good advices.

I don't think I will have time to work on the boat this year. But I have make some planning.
Can I post my planning here and ask for your expert knowledge to review them?

Thanks again.
JimTan
 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2022 2:23 am

Re: A comfort focused rigging and storage configuration plan

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:54 pm

We'd love to year about your adventures -- preferably those aspects that are applicable to all open sailboats of this size, independent of the specific model. Those would be of most interest to the audience here. Planning, preparation and all other aspects of cruising, including trip reports have their home in this section of the forum.

If you'd like to discuss things like the best strategy for rigging a tent, sleeping platform and so on, you might see where similar posts have been made and place your contributions there. I believe the "miscellaneous" section would be best. To avoid confusion, please remember to note that you are sailing a similar and not identical boat to the DaySailer.

You're also welcome to dig in our archives (older posts). There are many discussions about doing fiberglass work, for example, that you might find interesting.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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