Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Moderator: GreenLake

Postby K.C. Walker » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:58 pm

I haven’t capsized my Daysailer, YET. Enough of times with the Sunfish, though. Baysailer, I to laughed, it was a great description, Salty Dog! I especially like the part about faking competence with your girlfriend. :-) Been there!

Steve, I’ve vowed to do maintenance on my flotation tanks this winter, or at least before next season. I know the bow tank is good, I have an inspection port cut in their. I just need to cut inspection ports in the seat tanks. I have replaced the stoppers, though. I stuck my finger in the tanks and I think they’re good, because they feel dry. However, I know I need to cut the inspection ports and be sure. Thanks for the reminder!
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby Salty Dog » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:09 pm

Hey K C Walker

She's my wife now for 12 years. She knows me pretty well now. and I've got a sneaky suspition she knew me better than I thought she did then.

Calvin
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby RhodySail » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:24 pm

Older post but here's my 2 cents.

I grew up teaching adults on DS 2's and I now own a DS 1 which I capsized last year. They're quite hard to capsize but the most definitely do. If your sailing solo don't let them turtle I've never seen a single person get a DS back from being completely turtled whereas its pretty easy for 1 person to right it before she goes completely over and creates a suction.

Tips for preventing getting your gunwales awash: Open up all your flotation chambers and install newish closed cell flotation foam (I just cut it small enough to shape and fit in rather than use any spray flotation). This means that you don't need to be super concerned about maintaining the water-tight integrity of those chambers and will ensure more boyancy.

Also, Keep a bailer secure near the gunwales. This allows you to start bailing from the water so you don't pick up any more water as you climb back in to find your bailer or re-capsize her as the water sloshes around.

While working as a mate 38' on a Tancook Whaler schooner the captain once said to me "theres no better pump than a scared guy with a 5 gallon bucket"...he was right.

~Happy Swimming!
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby curifin » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 am

Adding to the old post..... I flipped my DS1 last week :) too much wind, quick jibe and bam. Mast sank very quickly and lodged in muddy bottom. Flipped her back over with help from TPWD and some power boaters. Things I learned (but should have known already from reading here) :

1 - max gust condition on DS1 with unreefed main is about 15 knots.... Above that, at least with variable gusts, and you have an increased risk. A sprightly crew and quick reflexes help, but in a Texas sized 30 mph gust you may get wet anyway! Below 15 it seems pretty easy to just dump the main.

2 - get a mast float :) I don't see any self rescue from a turtle on this one, my "sealed" mast filled up and sank before i could swim out a float.

3 - collect your stuff before it floats off ;) and when you abandon your boat take your rescue stuff (lights horn GPS) with you. Duh.

Only items that needed replacing was jib halyard and cushions, but took me several hours to clean the boat out and get her sorted. Sunday was beautiful and we sailed all day!

Thinking of the hobie mast float, anyone mount one of those? Am pretty sure me and another could right her if it did not trtlr and honestly sailing this boat fast and hard is so much fun I see dumping it again :)
1970 DS1 "Denial"
1993 Beneteau First 210 "Dory"
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby jeadstx » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:10 pm

I added two feet of foam inside the top of my mast. I also added a small plastic bottle as a float on the end of the mast, really doesn't help much, but maybe slows things down on turtling. I also sealed holes from old hardware attachment points on my mast. You should have reef points on your mainsail so you can reef in heavy winds.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby Aaron Moore » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:36 pm

I installed a Hobie Baby Bob last year, after painting it red so it did not look so much like a Hobie Baby Bob. It was easy and looks OK, I think. I put some pictures in my gallery. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby curifin » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:21 pm

Aaron Moore wrote:I installed a Hobie Baby Bob last year, after painting it red so it did not look so much like a Hobie Baby Bob. It was easy and looks OK, I think. I put some pictures in my gallery. Let me know if you have any questions.


I like that look..... Did you tap the masthead for the mount? Also have you dumped it since the mod? Will it stop a turtle?
1970 DS1 "Denial"
1993 Beneteau First 210 "Dory"
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:34 am

On the hard, a typical hollow concrete brick will be sufficient (if pull is from the masthead) to counterbalance a hull that's balancing on the gunwales. In the water, the center of buoyancy is going to be in a slightly different place, but this should give you an estimate of the kinds of forces involved. 20ft is a rather long lever arm!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby Aaron Moore » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:36 am

No tapping--I just drilled a through hole lining up with the predrilled holes in the float bracket. There was plenty of room between the sheaves. I have not dumped it, but I do feel like it will stop turtling if I do.
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby seandwyer » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:53 am

You know, that doesn't look at bad as I had thought it would. Looks like you bolted through the mast head casting between the sheaves. If it has enough buoyancy to keep it from turtling, that might not be a bad idea. And painted red, it would be a brightly colored warning device to cars behind you when trailering. The questions I have are, obviously--does it work? Have to turned the boat over and tried it out? Does anyone think that the shape of it could somehow cause any aerodynamic problems with regard to the sails? And...where do you keep your windvane now? What's the cost on something like that?

One thing is for certain--I think I'd like to live wherever the photos of the boat in the water were taken. That looks like quite the spot!
Sean
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby seandwyer » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:00 am

I'm not one to understand physics as well as I would like--but to Greenlakes point about the cement block, the Baby Bob says it displaces 32 pounds and weighs 2.65 pounds. That seems like it would do the job to me. Yes?
Sean
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:36 am

I don't know about the Hobie mast float. I'm sure they'd hold the mast up but that's an awful lot of windage up there so I think that it would make capsizing more likely, especially without a rotating mast. I kind of consider the DaySailer a semi non-self rescuing boat. If you're in really windy conditions (and probably choppy) and you do get the boat back up, and you get on board (not so easy), it will be full of water and very unstable. If you have a big wind catcher at the top of your mast it's likely to blow you back over before you have a chance to bail out the boat or at least blow you around enough to put the rail under again and refill the boat.

I like sailing hard and fast, as well. And have avoided capsizing so far. With those Texas sized gusts like that, you are at definite risk. Things that I feel have helped me out most in gusty situations to avoid capsizing are, #1 don't do an actual gybe but do a "chicken gybe" or as Mike Gillum recently called it a "chicken tack". I NEVER cleat the jib and mainsail in these conditions. Instead I use ratchet blocks to hold the load. I try not to let the boat heal up. Even if I'm in hiking straps (which are mandatory for me) and out as far as I can be with my long tiller extension (also vital), my righting moment is far less if I let the boat heal up.

I avoid running in these conditions because it's the hardest point-of-sail to control. There's really no way to relieve pressure and an unintentional gybe is a recipe for disaster. Here is a video of the present and past national champions "blast reaching" in the conditions that you describe. Notice how flat they're keeping the boats http://vimeo.com/66536452 .

I watch the water constantly to anticipate the gusts before they hit. With the sheets in hand, it's easy to ease them a bit before the gust hits, and if need be, ease them more as the gust hits. At the same time head the boat up a little bit, hike harder, get ready to trim the sails and ride the gust. If you watch the video, the first boat is handling the gusts so well that it doesn't even look like it's gusty, the second boat, also one of the best sailors in the class, doesn't anticipate one of the gusts quite as well and you can see they have to dump the sails for a fraction of a second. The difference in reaction time of just a fraction of a second makes a huge difference, which is why you never want to cleat the sheets in these conditions.

I must admit, I don't reef my boat very often but of course that would help greatly in 30 mph gusts. If after de-powering all my sails as much as possible, if I still have to work too hard to keep up right, generally I pull the sails down and start the motor to head home for a beer (and I probably need one).
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby seandwyer » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:50 am

KC--yes, yes, I know this is a dumb question, but how do you keep both sheets in hand? Is this when you have crew?

Also, I have regular old plain blocks. The ones that came with the boat 45 years ago. I've been thinking about switching up to ratchets. Does anyone have suggestions as to size and make? It wounds like this would be a safeguard I could install now to make capsizing less likely.
Sean
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:43 pm

Sean,

Yes, absolutely with crew. I would not go out in conditions described here without crew, and not inexperienced crew, at that. It would even be better with two crew members. If I'm out in conditions that are less extreme and I'm single-handed but close to my limit, I de-power the jib as much as possible by cranking the halyard tension with my 3:1 halyard tensioner, move the sheet blocks all the way back and let the Barber haulers out. I then cleat the jib but keep the sheet in my lap and hold the main in hand un-cleated. I also keep my 20:1 vang tensioned and that lead in my lap, as well.

I think that a 57 mm ratchet block on the main is considered to be about ideal. I've got a 75 mm ratchet block (because I got a good deal on eBay) and that works very well. I've got a Harken manual ratchet and I think most of the top racing folks use the manual ratchet. I rarely turn mine off. Green Lake will no doubt add to this that he uses an auto ratchet that also works well. I've bought nine ratchet blocks off eBay so far, all for about $30, and all of them as new old stock. About half of them are auto ratchets. The 40 mm Ronstan auto "smart" ratchets did not hold up particularly well, but they've discontinued those, I think because there were problematic. I've got Holt/Alan 50 mm auto ratchets that I haven't tried yet and 60 mm manual ratchets that have one season with no problem, and then some 40 mm Harken's that have been fine, as well as the 75 mm Harken which has been fine.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby Mike Gillum » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:10 pm

Only capsized #2772 BUBBA once because the original Boomvang Cleat was on top of the Cuddy Cabin aft of the mast instead of back on the centerboard trunk in a 360 Cleat (labeled the "Panic Button") just in front of the Mainsheet within in easy reach of the skipper and crew for emergencies!
I wouldn't sail without ratchet blocks on the DS Main and Jib.
I use a pair of ratchet blocks on my Snipe style Bridle Mainsheet with a Harken Hexaratchet on the Harken HK144 Swivel Base and a Harken HK2625 Single 57mm Carbo Ratchamatic directly above the Base on the boom.
A couple of advantages with my set-up is that the Ratchamatic is load-sensing so in light air it free-wheels acting like a regular ball-bearing block but then automatically engages under load upwind or reaching in moderate to big-air conditions while the Harken Hexaratchet has a switch on the side of it allowing me to easily and quickly turn it off in light air so I don't telegraph to my competitors that I'm trimming or easing my Main for the ever changing conditions.
The Jib Sheet has a Harken HK2608 Single 40mm Carbo Ratchet that's part of the adjustable Jib Car on the track fastened to the inside edge of the deck just aft of the Cuddy Cabin that allows my wife Mardi to easily trim the Jib in all conditions.
Most of the Ratchet Blocks advertise having a 12:1 mechanical advantage but what they really do for the skipper and crew is to help ease the loads on the sheets allowing us to be able to survive the big-air days when we sail without cleating the sheets!
Once your DS is easier to sail then you can get your head outside of the boat to be able to look around for the "hammers" with your name written on them!
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