Run or Broad reach?

[Scott Mulford]

Do you run downwind or opt for a series of broad reaches?

I am asking because I notice my DS1 doesn't like running downwind in light air.

The going was slow, the jib would get covered by the main and because of the aft position of the shrouds the boom couldn't be let out far or the mainsail would rub on the shrouds.

And because the boom wasn't near 90 degrees it kept threatening to gybe on me with the leach luffing on a wind shift or a sloppy tiller.

So.. I tried 'downwind tacking' in a series of broad reaches. The speed came right up and I didn't have to walk a tightrope watching the boom for unplanned gybes.

Is the DS designed to Run?

[algonquin]

I have generally had decent performance running downwind in light air. I try to run wing and wing using a spinnaker pole to hold the jib on the opposite side from the main. Occasionally I drop the jib and fly the spinnaker with pretty good results. Brad

[TIM WEBB]

The DS (any - 1, 2, or 3) is perfectly capable of running! I assume from your post you are "non-spinnaker"?

But, there are tricks:

1. Set up your rig for wing 'n' winging with a whisker pole. This can be basically anything that you can hold the jib clew out to one side or the other with. Mine is a simple 1" diameter aluminum pole with hooks on the ends. There is a ring on the front of the mast that is positioned at a height such that the pole is at 90 degrees to the mast when the jib is poled out. I also made my jib sheets longer so the lazy one still has some slack in it. I used to have to re-route the working sheet outside the shroud, but now I don't have to do that since I use the barber inhauler to keep it from chafing on the shroud ...

2. The boom/main does not need to be at 90 degrees to be effective, but it does need to be as flat as possible. This means halyard, outhaul and vang tight. Some contact with the shrouds is OK, as long as there is not a lot of up and down movement of the sail on them. Make sure you have spreader boots or some other means of protecting the sail from the nasty sharp bits in this area. Also, a preventer helps alot. Mine is a simple snap shackle mounted to the underside of the boom, right where it meets the shroud when it's out there. I clip it on, then sheet in the main just enough to take out the slack. Beware tho: you really better know when to pop that thing off there, cuz things could get really interesting in an uncontrolled gybe with it on!

3. When runnning, pull the CB all the way up, and get all skipper (and crew if you're lucky enough to have them) weight as far aft as possible.

4. Some kind of tiller tamer comes in really handy. Doesn't have to be fancy: mine is simply one of those black rubber bungee cords stretched across the stern, and a jam cleat on the bottom of the tiller. Just set it amidships - you will do most of your steering downwind by shifting from side to side ...

Some of my fastest boat speeds have been running, here in FL on an east-west lake with a nice evening seabreeze filling in. Oh, but you ask, how do I stop? Well before I get to the opposite shore, I get ready: CB down (pretty easy even at higher boat speeds while running, since there are no side loads on it), pop the preventer and tiller tamer, then slowly turn the boat into the wind into a hove-to position. If the jib is out to stbd and the main to port, I'll turn stbd, and vice versa. This puts you into a sort of "neutral" position that gives you time to unhook the whisker pole and sheet the jib to weather for the normal hove-to position. Main is all the way out, with the preventer off. Gotta act fast tho, as you'll be going backwards in a hurry if you don't! ;-P

[Scott Mulford]

Thanks tim, great tips there.

I will have to try the whisker pole and preventer. I was my own whisker pole and that was no fun.

My main could use some tightening too I am sure.

Now you have me thinking about where I was sitting. I'll have to try sitting to leeward. I was steering by moving forward and aft. I didn't think to try side to side.

And no I haven't attempted the spinnaker. I have never set one up and although I have a spinnaker pole I am not sure how to use it!

[K.C. Walker]

Scott,

I'm with you on this one. I find running to be boring, especially in light air. If I have the room to gybe downwind I prefer to broad reach, also. Your VMG it's likely to be the same or better with a broad reach.

This is the reason that I'm considering a Doyle UPS sail which is a "drifter/reacher" sail. The sail is specifically designed for these conditions. Say you have 3-5 kn of true wind, you'd be lucky to get 1-2 knots of boat speed while running and you'd be sitting in still air in the cockpit. They claim with the UPS you would be able to get close to 3-5 kn boat speed on a broad reach and have a nice apparent breeze in the cockpit. To me that sounds like a lot more fun.

[TIM WEBB]

Really? Running is boring? I find it to be exhilarating, since it is probably the most "unstable" point of sail, requiring constant attention to tiller and boat balance to keep from rounding up. It's also pretty cool when it feels like there's no wind, but the boat is humming along ...

I agree that in *very* light air it's not very exciting, but then again, what point of sail *is* in those conditions?

[K.C. Walker]

Ok, you're right Tim. It's not always boring, sometimes it is scary. If the breeze is up enough to make the boat unstable while running I definitely prefer to broad reach. Under those conditions, with luck I can head up a little bit more, get the boat on a plane, and then head back down into the broad reach again while still planning. That's when it really gets fun!

[TIM WEBB]

Yeah, I guess if it's REALLY windy, I wouldn't take the chance on getting all the steps necessary for wing 'n' winging done in just the right order, but then again, gybing can be just as exciting!

On the long, skinny, east/west lake I usually sail on, it's just easier to run with the prevailing easterly sea breeze than gybe every 30 seconds, especially at the east end where it's really narrow ...

[Mike Gillum]

That's what the spinnaker is for!
If your spinnaker is flying properly and your jib is trying to go to windward of the mast then you're by the lee.
You should either head up several degrees or gybe before the main does it for you.
Sailing or racing a Daysailer DDW (dead down wind) is really slow and painful.
In 0-5 knots of breeze I'll head up 15-30 degrees from DDW to pull the apparent wind forward and create airflow over all three sails.
It's called VMG (velocity made good) reaching and you're trading-off increased speed for increased distance covered.
The goal is that the increased speed throughout the run will be greater than the increased distance you covered by VMG reaching.
Catamarans, Skiffs, and Sportboats with assymetrical spinnakers are just a couple of examples of boats that always VMG reach downwind.
A Daysailer will do the same thing just a lot slower.
Keep in mind that VMG reaching downwind is just like beating upwind and that instead of tacking on headers like you would upwind that you want to gybe on lifts downwind.
Gybing on lifts downwind allow you to go down the course quicker.
Puffs or headers should be used to bear away from your previous course to also go down the course quicker.
Really beneficial when you're trying to "connect the dots" by jumping quicker than your competitors from puff to puff in really light air.
Over about 5 knots of breeze in a Daysailer and we're all going about the same speed DDW.
Then it comes down to tactical decisions on boat placement in relationship to your competitors and course management.

[TIM WEBB]

Very nice analysis Mike, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about non-spinnaker boats here, and also singlehanded (mine=both).

Also, sometimes there's just not enough room to reach, and you just gotta run/wing 'n' wing. That may be slower than VMG, but it's certainly not "painful"!

[Mike Gillum]

Not really too much difference whether you're racing your Daysailer with two or cruising around the local lake with one.
Fastest cruisers circling the world are most often former racers impatient to get from Point A to Point B. My grandparents who cruised the South Pacific back in the late '50's through early '70's fell into that category!
The angles for VMG reaching downwind aren't too far removed from the same angles tacking upwind.
The best way to find out how it works is to have a DS or similar boat sail DDW while you VMG reach short distances.
The difference will really surprise you!

[K.C. Walker]

Yes, being impatient to get from point A to point B, that's me. Of course, I'm not anxious to get out the boat when I reach point B, necessarily. I might have to go to point C just to see how fast I can get there! Of course, logic would just say burn a little gasoline, but what fun would that be?

Or how about when you take someone out sailing and they don't get that going from point A to point B as quickly as possible is the game. You know, you give them the helm and the main sheet and you talk them through it. Yikes, they weren't paying attention and thought it was just a social occasion. And… that's when impatience starts to creep in. Sailors are a funny lot, aren't we?

So, how do you definitively know that you are getting from point A to point B as fast as possible? You can't use GPS because you can never be in the same water/breeze twice. Well, comparing your speed to another boat that's pretty much it. Of course, if you really really want to know if you're getting from point A to point B as fast as possible, or at least faster than anyone else can, you become a national champion. Right Mike?

[Mike Gillum]

Seriously, I couldn't step foot on too many sailboats without making adjustments to the rigging and/or control lines trying to make it go faster! Most of that is personal taste.
Isn't life really a sailboat race?
For me it's usually a "race" driving from home to wherever we're racing trying to beat my previous best time without picking up a speeding ticket.
It's usually a race from the dock to the race course trying to beat anyone near us between the dock and start line. Great way to gauge the conditions and boat set-up.
Of course there are the actual races and though I don't live to win, I certainly don't take great pleasure in losing either.
In my book it's really important to either win or place near the top in the last race of the day to be able to get back to the dock first and pull out.
Why? We can then take our time putting away the boat while watching the snafu around the hoist or dock and drinking an ice cold beer or two that have been calling out for me all afternoon to drink them.
Following the trophy presentation, then another "race" for home to put away the boat & gear, grab a hot shower, and finally jump in bed.
Don't get me entirely wrong as I could just as easily sit on a lounge chair all day overlooking the beach with a cold beverage in hand while watching the waves break on the beach.
"Different strokes for different folks" as the saying goes?

[TIM WEBB]

Yeah, I guess - different strokes for different folks ...

No, for some of us, life is not a sailboat race, but rather, we go sailing to get away from the rat race that is life. Honestly, we could care less about how fast we get from A to B, and in fact could care less about even *having* an A and B.

It's more just about the water time. We're much more concerned about how to make our boats easier to sail than how to "beat the other guy". In fact, where I usually sail, the only "other guys" are annoying arrogant bass fishermen whose sole purpose in life seems to be giving me a hassle. So, for those of us who sail alone, and alone on the lake (as far as other blow boats go), and have no interest in racing, whether we run or reach or whatever is kinda a moot point ...

Besides, I'd rather enjoy that cold cylinder while underway, rather than back at the dock!

Ya know, one reason I got outta skydiving and (back) into sailing was because I was tired of all the jumpers who just HAD to make a competition out of it, rather than just enjoying the sky for what it is, the same way I enjoy the water for what it is: FREEDOM!

C'mon peeps, is anyone else on this forum gonna back me up on this one, or am I the only one who sails a DS just for the simple joy of being on the water and sailing - however fast we get to wherever we're going???

[jdoorly]

It occurred to me that the solution needed for knowing whether to run or gybe downwind is simply basic geometry and proportion so I made this handy dandy chart up for K.C. (and me!)

It is based on the premise that 2 possible courses are known and the rest can be interpolated. Coarse 1: If point b is downwind of a and they are 1 mile apart and you are moving at 1 mile per hour you will get there in 1 hour. Coarse 2: If you reach from a to b on a coarse 45 degrees from DDW and gybe back after half way you will travel 1.414 miles and if your average velocity is greater than 2.414 (the speed DDW + the breakeven speed from the chart) the reach was faster.

So, suppose your on a run going 3 (kn or mph doesn't matter, just stay consistent). If you were to change coarse 30 degrees (and gybe back at half way) your new speed would need to be 3 + 2.828 = 5.828 to get to the destination at the same time.

However, I'm not feeling 100% confident that I haven't made some hair-brained mistake. Do the results sound feasible to you?