engine suggestions?

[Guest]

About to revive a day sailer form unspeakable neglect. As a sailing-want-to-be I hope to use the boat to learn the art of sailing. Until I become comfortable with my skill, I will need an engine to get me out of the tough spots. I read the section on trolling motors and it sounds interesting but I need a gas engine for where I am.

Any suggestions on hp, weight, length of shaft, and brand will be much appreciated. Thanks

Scott Barron (sbarron-at-pol.net)

[Guest]

Please, oh please ... don't do it!!

We all know outboard capability was part of the plan with the DS design, but don't give in! Don't give in to the noise, stink, expense, mainsheet tangles, irregularity and heart arythmia (yeah, I'm reaching).

Get some oars! Inexpensive, easy to maintain, look good hangin' on the wall during hardwater season, excellent excercise, splashin' your girlfriend OARS!

Show your individuality Scott, and ROW!

Gary Tabor (ratracer-at-rust.net)

[Guest]

When I bought my Day Sailer, the guy had a '84 Johnson long-shaft 4 HP outboard that the original owner had purchased w/ the boat. He'd never started the motor in the 10 years he'd had the boat as he kept the boat on a davit at a small urban lake. He offered it to me for $75, and even though I thought I didn't need it, I figured it was a bargain so I bought it. After a carb and fuel pump rebuild at a cost of $175, it runs perfectly and I'm glad I bought it. It pushes the boat 5-6 knots and has plenty of reserve power to go into wind and waves. Definitely don't go any bigger, and a 2.5 HP may even be sufficient depending on your situation. The long-shaft is nice as it will help keep the prop in the water if you encounter big waves. For marina motoring and small lakes, I imagine a regular length shaft would be fine.

The nice thing about having the motor, I'm able to motor in and out of marinas on the big lakes. When we camp, we like to have at least one or two nice meals, so sailing from the campsite to a marina makes for a fun day. Sure you could paddle or oar once you get there, but some of the marinas I've been in on Lake Texoma are HUGE and I don't want to show up for lunch exhausted from 30 minutes of oaring and knowing I have another 1/2 hour to get back out. Plus, we often motor up and down the rows and check out all the big sailboats.

Another use for motors, here in Texas, a thunderstorm can sneak up fast, and your steady 10 knot S winds can completely stop leaving you in the middle of a large lake acting as a lightning rod for the impending storm. I put the motor on back on such days and it gives me a nice peace of mind... Wind stops? No big deal... North winds jump up to 30+ knots? Drop the sails and motor to safety...

We also plan to take the DS on little fishing trips w/ the boys when they get a little older. A motor will be nice for that.

Just a few of the reasons an OB works for me...

Kevin Clark
Dallas, Texas
DS 11791

Kevin Clark (clarkr-at-aud.alcatel.com)

[Guest]

I must agree with Gary....don't. Better yet, buy a book on sailing.....I recommend "Sailing For Dummies", by Peter and J. J. Isler, from IDG Books. Keep it by the toilet, or on the nightstand, and you'll get a grasp of the basics fairly quickly. The first few times out, you'll struggle with the running rigging, get in irons, jibe unintentionally and maybe get wet, but keep after it....suddenly, when you least expect it, you'll hit "the groove", and you'll be hooked.

And paddles.....take paddles.

wgbryant (wgbryant-at-flash.net)

[Guest]

Scott,

After re-reading your original post, let me add this. If you're just having a few problems learning to sail, do like the other posters suggested...learn and paddle your way through this phase. I feel there are some legitimate uses for motors on Day Sailers, not for everyone and every situation, but for some. Buying a motor just to help you through the learning phase of sailing, though, is not necessary and I'd discourage that too. If you need a motor for other reasons, that's entirely different.

Kevin Clark
Dallas, TX
DS 11791

Kevin Clark (clarkr-at-aud.alcatel.com)

[Guest]

Out board on an O'day day sailor? How dare you. This is the perfect sailboat for the beginner. You owe it to your self to put in the time to learn the ropes. ( Pun intended) If it is absolutly necessary to propel your day sailor please use an electric trolling motor. You will maintail the sprit of the sail boat while getting to the dock in time.

Mike Hill (mhill-at-mlecmn.net)

[Guest]

Scott,
While I appreciate the perspective of the sailing purists out there, I view my 4HP long shaft Johnson as as essential safety device for the coastal sailing that I do in New England. Just this week I took my daysailer out singlehanded in Vineyard Sound off of Martha's Vineyard in a 15 knot wind that freshened to 20 knots with 4 foot swells and drizzle. I ended-up off of East Chop with a half mile up-wind tack against a 3-4 knot current and could have easily spent an hour getting back in miserable (and potentially dangerous) conditions. I elected to crank-up the motor and really needed all 4 HP to get back to the harbor against the waves and current. Obviously, there is potentially more than one moral to this story, but my point is that in my view certain locations and conditions necessitate a reliable motor.

Mark Miller (miller.mark-at-boston.va.gov)

[Guest]

Okay, Scott's got a point. I sail on a big puddle in Texas, and most of the time if the wind gets hairy I can just jump out and wade in with the painter in hand. To be serious, if you're going to be on a large body of water, far away from a soft place to put her ashore, I can see a motor as an essential safety device. It boils down to safety versus sailing purity. I keep a paddle on board for the same reason Scott has a motor....but Lake Arlinton has no currents, unless you get too close to the power station.

Gene (wgbryant-at-flash.net)

[Guest]

I think it's time for all of us sailors to get over this "motor phobia" that seems to be rampant among us. Every responsible sailor of a sailboat over 20 feet or so has an auxiliary of some kind. Are we saying that daysailers can't have motors because it makes "stinkpotters" out of them. Don't look down your nose at a fellow daysailer owner who has to buck 6 knot currents to get home. I own a daysailer and a 30 foot power boat - I really get a kick out of it when another sailor will wave to me when I'm in the daysailer, but the same guy the next day will make obscene gestures when I go by in the power boat. In the words of Rodney King - "Can't we all just get along?"

fskewes (fskewes-at-ebmail.gdeb.com)

[Guest]

I used to sail a DS on a large inland lake that had a crowded marina. Sometimes boats had to wait in tight quarters for their turn to dock and recover at the launching ramp. The prevailing wind tended to blow me away from the dock while I was waiting, and there was no room to approach the dock under sail. In those situations I found a motor to be very useful. I also used the motor in extreme wind conditions. If the wind died late on a Sunday and I had to get home, the motor often saved me an hour or more. Or, if the wind came up too strongly with a thunderstorm behind it, the motor got me in more quickly. I had a 4 HP gas type with a normal shaft, and it worked well even against a strong wind. I very rarely used the motor away from the marina, though.

Ken C (kcobb-at-bspmlaw.com)

[Guest]

I can't believe I'm going to add to this thread, but here goes ...

When I got my Daysailer about 3 years ago I went searching for an affordable outboard. I knew very little about sailing and couldn't imagine a boat without some sort of motor. After seeing prices of new outboards I bought a couple of oars.

That turns out to have been the best decision I've made in my sailing education. My launch in Clear Lake TX was wonderful but I had a narrow channel to navigate before actually reaching the lake. Without a motor I learned to sail away from the dock, tack down the channel and into the lake, then tack back up the channel, drop sails, and bring it up to the dock like a pro. If I'd had a motor I would never have attempted that.

I heartily agree that there are places that a motor is a necessity. However, it's also a crutch. If you're learning to sail, consider the motor an absolute last resort.

By the way, I always have the oars on board, but I've never used them.

J.T.Ellis (jellis-at-energy.twc.com)

[Guest]

I too, wanted to learn to sail and not be hindered by the smell and noise and mechanics of an outboard, so it took me a year before I finally bought a little 2.3 hp. Yep, it's smelly, noisy, and needs some care, but it has made some of my sailing trips more fun. It's also given me some headaches, but over all it's been a positive. I think, like many others, that sailing should be fun, and whatever helps you to be more comfortable on the water should be considered as an option. Even though I have a motor, I've chosen to learn how to sail well, and I now leave it off the boat unless I think I may need it. However, the motor bailed me out when I was dismasted and a couple miles from the ramp, it also allowed me to motor on a windless rainy day while comfortably seated under my boom tent while in a remote area, four days and many miles from the launch site. I've towed motorless daysailers to safety during thunderstorms, and just three weeks ago I could have used it to get the 200 yards from my slip to the ramp - I couldn't paddle into 12+ mph of wind on the nose, and didn't have my sails. I think that all the more experienced sailors should try to provide good information to the newcomers to our sport (obsession) so that they can make decisions that are appropriate for them. I'd like to thank everyone who takes the time to ask the questions and give advice through this discussion group. This is a great resource.

Lee Peterson (leep-at-means.net)

[Bob Hunkins]

I'd have to add my vote for no motor also. I started sailing in Clear Lake, TX, like J.T. did...(BTW, J.T. are you still in the area??) and learned how to sail up and down the narrow channel (probably the same one JT did), used a paddle to get out of tight spots or to fend off. I wanted to go out in to Galveston Bay, so I bought an old, noisy smelly British Seagull, and used it about three or four times.... The smell, the spilt oily Gasoline mix that is inevitable, the noise, did I mention the smell?... It just wasn't worth it. I found I wasn't sailing as much as I had been, that's when I found a sailing club to join and got to know others in the area with the same interest. That really kept the sport alive for me. I ended up getting into racing and now that's what I like the most about sailing. The occasional day sail still happens, though.
In short: find an area where it's relatively safe to sail you won't get get swept out to sea by the tide or run over by ships in a channel. Take paddles, and choose the days to go - if the weather is bad, don't push it, there will be other days. Go with a friend, (at least at first) take all the recommended safety equipment. Practice approaching an object on the water, like a buoy. When you can get close enough to it to step off onto it, you can do the same thing with a dock. Be patient, the first time I tried to dock my boat singlehanded, it took me about five or six tries. but it got easier each time as I learned how the boat behaved.

[Guest]

I would have to disagree with the 'purists' who recommend against equiping your daysailer with an engine. While I agree that an engine should be no substitute for sailing ability, if you are on the ocean, or in a crowded area, or an area in which threatening weather comes up with little warning, an engine can be a lifesaver. No matter how well you sail, you cannot perform the maneuvers under sail that are routine with an engine. In an emergency man-overboard situation, when trying to rendezvous with a rescue craft, or while becalmed or fogged-in in a crowded channel without steerage an engine can literally make the difference between annoyance and danger.

I carry a four horse Mariner outboard on my daysailer. I bought it used for $400 and had it rebuilt for $50. It is plenty powerful enough to plane my hull and allow me to cruise at ~12 knots under power, regardless of the strength or direction of the wind. I do not use it when I don't have to. I bought a sail boat to sail, not to motor around. When I need it though, I am glad to have it. And on those windless days when I want to be on the ocean, maybe its not such a terrible compromise to put up with noise for a little while instead of hanging my feet off the end of the pier. When I want to race, it take it off.

I sail on Casco Bay, and on the ocean. I would not go out without radio, GPS, and flares. I consider power to be a similar necessity.

Your milage may varry.

Justin

Justin Andrus (jandrus-at-mail.maine.rr.com)

[Guest]

While I agree that the outboard can indeed become a "crutch" to a beginning sailer, I also feel that some form of auxiliary power is (unfortunately) needed. I for one really enjoy the challenge of sailing into or out of narrow harbor entrances, but.....given the over-crowding of the waterways these days, and the lack of respect shown by today's boaters (not just powerboaters) I have to admit that it is no longer truly safe to depend on sail alone to move my Day Sailer. My insistance on sailing in tight conditions can even become a nusence, and unfortunately several harbors have now outlawed sailing in and out of the harbor, you MUST power in and out! I have a 2.3hp Johnson short-shaft on my DS II, and it is on the high side of minimum power for the boat on Buzzards Bay (Massachusetts). The only concerns that come to mind about switching to an electric motor are: 1)my 2.3hp gas motor weighs 28#, a Deep-cycle battery weighs 60-70#. 2)how do I keep the battery charged, since I keep my boat on a mooring? 3)I don't think that the electrics would really have enough power for me.
Now, for lake sailing in a trailered DS, the electric may work fine, and is much more friendly to the enviroment, also many lakes do not allow gas motors.
Oars and paddles also work fine, but can be tiring over a long trip home, especially into a breeze.
So, I figure that I'll keep the gas outboard for the moment. The other situation not mentioned before is that I can power in far less water than I can sail, so that can also effect someone's decision!

Rod Johnson (rjohnson24-at-juno.com)