What am I supposed to do with the sail?

[seandwyer]

Hi Folks,

A simple (I hope) question for everyone.

Let's say, I'm out sailing and decide that I'd like to stop for lunch, or take a dip. I have this enormous main sail to contend with and rather than letting it lay in the bottom of the boat where everyone will step on it, I wonder if the proper method for temporary stowing can be explained to me? I have this idea in my head that there is some nautically correct method to quickly take the sail down and secure it on the boom for instance - without completely removing it so as to make hoisting and getting underway quick and easy once the picnic has come to completion. I want to do this in a way that is gentle on the sail as well. Can someone explain how to go about this - and maybe a picture would be good too if someone has one. Do you keep the battons in?

One more queston - I'd been taking the battons out of the sail when folding and putting it away in the bag - but while watching a you tube video of proper sail folding technique, I noticed that the battons were kept in the sail. What is correct and best for the life of the sail? Battons in or out when placed in the sail bag until the following weekend?

Thanks!

[GreenLake]

When I got my new sails, the sailmaker suggested leaving the battens in, if the sail was rolled so they would end up straight (i.e. not bent). So, it would depend on how you store your sail. If your folded sail fits into your sailbags with the battens flat, and no tension around the batten pockets, or crinkles in the sail, then leaving them in should reduce wear on the pockets.

To your first question, I have to admit that properly flaking a sail on the boom is something I find difficult as well. The idea is that you Z fold the sail into a packet about 1-2ft wide centered on the boom with the folds hanging over the boom on either side. You need something to hold up the boom (either the halyard or a topping lift) and it's definitely easier with two people.

Big boats often have sail slides that stay in the mast track, which means that they hold the folded sail in place over the boom, while for a typical DaySailer main you have to get the sail out of the mast track, which gives it a chance to escape.

This is the typical result when you are in a hurry:



[click image to enlarge]

After three hours of sailing, we were trying to get to the local ice-cream place -our destination- before they were closing but missed it by minutes anyway

This is with my old sails that were soon to be replaced anyway - I would not recommend this kind of treatment for new sails

[kokko]

I concur with Greenlake. I would not remove the battens if the sail is to be stowed just temporarily. As shown in his pic, keep the boltrope in the mast a foot or so to expedite the hoisting, and then flake the sail to the boom. You can use sail ties, or West used to sell something they called an octopus, whhich was a long bungee that ran the length of the boom, and a half dozen perpendicular short bungees for securing the sail to the boom.

Either way, you need a topping lift to keep the boom up.

[GreenLake]

If you don't like sail ties, or other dedicated lines cluttering up your boat, here's a way to wrap the sail on a boom with a single line (20-22ft long).

You start at the left with a slipknot as shown, or with some other loop you tie. To cover the rest of the boom first lead a short section along the boom to the right, then grab another short section, but doubled, and pull it through from behind. Then you continue by taking short doubled sections of the rope and pulling them through the loops formed by the previous one. Finish off with a slip knot. To make that more secure, stick the last part through and pulled tight (it's already doubled and pointing in the right direction in the picture).


[click image to enlarge]

As tied, you just pull on the red end to release all. If you tied a different loop on the left to get started, you'll need to untie that. (I'd recommend the latter if you intend to leave the boat at the dock unattended for even a short length of time.

It ties easily, because you don't ever pull the full end through, only a short section at a time. And it unties easily. The same scheme can be used to tie halyards to a mast after it's been lowered.

[seandwyer]

Hey Guys,

These are good ideas - one or more of which I will be trying out tomorrow!

Greenlake - I think I've got the gist of your line and loop knotting technique, but I'd be lying if I said I understood. I think I just need to just grab a length of rope and see if what I understand is really what is going on in the picture - we'll find out soon enough!

Thanks to everyone for the information and help!

[GreenLake]

I think I just need to just grab a length of rope and see if what I understand is really what is going on in the picture - we'll find out soon enough!

Right, the minute you do that, it'll become obvious. Don't sweat the first knot on the left - any old knot will do to get this started. Same on the right, use whatever to tie the end. (In a cookbook, that would be called "season to taste" )

The useful part is in the middle.

[Roger]

actually two. First to keep the boom aloft and out of the cockpit you will need a topping lift that runs from the mast top to the boom end and holds the boom up. It is easy to make it adjustable. There are quite a few different ways of doing that.

Secondly, an old salt showed me how to drop the sail by about two feet so that it created a bag on one side of the boom. Into this he lowered and stuffed the rest of the sail then with about three long shoelace lengths of cord tied it to the mast. Believe it or not, this is the nautical thing to do if you are no able to easily flake your sail on top of the boom.

[GreenLake]

I can see how that "bag to the side of the boom" idea would help with keeping things together, especially when it's windy. I know it would have worked with my old sails, they were fairly soft and easy to "stuff". My new sails are a lot stiffer - so I wonder how well this idea would work for them.

[jcalvinmarks]

Maybe I'm missing something here ... and please correct me if I'm wrong.

But couldn't you just take advantage of the roller reefing feature of the gooseneck, and just roll the whole sail up on the boom (if your DaySailer is so equipped)?

[Imgaryo1]

If you are on the water and want to stop for a picnic or swim or whatever, don't bother with taking the sails down at all. Just heave to. Its very easy to do, very quick to get back under way and is better for your sails( especially of they are new) than reefing or rolling around the boom.

[seandwyer]

Hello,

Sorry guys, I don't know what the roller reefing idea pertains to at all. Perhaps that is a feature my boat doesn't have - in which case it's not an option. It sounds like the boom must swivel at the gooseneck or something - but mine doesn't do that - that I know of. Can someone explain?

Heaving to? What is heaving to? Does that simply mean turning into the wind and then anchoring? That might work for a little while, but honestly, the little lakes I'm on seem to be problematic in the wind direction department. On Saturday I had my wind direction flag (mast head fly?) up and watched the breeze change directions constantly - from west to east and back - then from the north or south west - it's everywhere! When the wind stopped completely I found myself very close to a guy in a SJ 23, and he kept complimenting my boat, telling me it was perfect for around here and that a DS couldn't be beat, precisely the boat he was trying to talk his brother into buying etc. Then he was explaining that I needed to be careful with the kids climbing up and down on the cuddy because unintentional jibes happen constantly on that lake - he's been saling there for 40 years. So - considering this, if I've got the Heaving To thing correct - is this really an option? And most probably it would not be an option at a dock I'm guessing?

Thanks for the advice. I didn't even really bother on Saturday to try stopping. We had a late start and honestly, (don't tell my kids) but stopping to swim seems like work and isn't anywhere close to appealing to me if I could be sailing across the lake instead. I like sailing - swimming is, well, passe.

By the way. While talking to that same guy he told me he used to trailer a boat like mine to put-in-bay, then tie it up to the dock and sail around the island, staying at night in a B&B etc. Sounds like a great trip - so I got to thinking about going up to Kelly's island maybe next month and doing just that sort of thing. I asked him if he thought I could do that on Lake Erie as long as I held close to the island and he acted like it would be no trouble at all - as if I could just sail right across lake Erie if i wanted to. I seem to be getting a lot of conflicting information about sailing my boat on the great lakes. I am new - and wouldn't consider going out on anything but a calm day, and would certainly stay close to shore. If I do it like that - what do you guys think? Go for it, or stay away?

Thanks!

[GreenLake]

Heaving to: Put your jib so that it's backwinded (on the "wrong" side of the boat). Let you mainsheet loose and point your tiller so it makes the same angle with he boat as the jib.

One way to get there, is to start a tack, but keep the jib where it was. Continue turning through the wind, let go of the main, then push the tiller leewards. It's a nice way to "park" for a while, the configuration is stable so you can lash your tiller.

However, the boat will drift, so I woulnd't swim anywhere from where I'd need the boat to get on shore. You can change the angle of the drifting by carefully playing with the main. It's a great way to have hands free to eat something on the water.

To start sailing, just let go of the jibsheet, so the jib is no longer held back to the wind, unlash the tiller, and pull in the mainsheet.

Roll-reef: Some goosenecks are set up that you can pull them away from the mast against a spring - that allows the boom to turn When you let go, a square pin engages. You need to remove the main sheet (and boom vang) first before rolling up the sail around the boom. My DS is set up that way, but I've never used it, because, to use it as a reef while sailing you need a "claw" that can grip the boom to attach the mainsheet when the sail is rolled on the boom.

Hadn't occurred to me to think of it for short-term storage of the sail.

[jpclowes]

Sean,
I think your boat would be fine on a daysail in either PIB or on the North Side of Kelly's. I would be sure to keep a close eye on the weather, and not stray too far from shore. Shelter can be a little hard to come by on the south sides of both islands. (There are some small harbors on the south sides of both islands that you could probably get into.)

I have heard that they used to do a small boat race from Sandusky Bay to PIB as a feeder race for the small boat races in the Bay Week Regatta. It sounds like a lot of fun, but I don't know that I would want to do it without support.