What tow vehicle are you using

Moderator: GreenLake

Postby talbot » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:48 am

The DS is ~600lbs, the trailer is ~400lbs, so your vehicle and hitch need to be able to pull a half ton, plus some margin. My mechanic, also a sailor, did not think that pulling the boat with my old Tercel was any problem. No one has mentioned ramp traction, but another concern is dragging the boat up steep launch ramps with front-wheel drive only. I've driven only small 4WD or AWD cars for many years, but I understand that you can have a really powerful vehicle that just spins its front drive wheels on a steep ramp when the rear hitch is loaded.
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Postby GreenLake » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:18 pm

I use a 92 explorer and instead of engaging 4WD I find it pays on some ramps to have my crew stand on the rear bumper while using only the rear wheel drive. (The bumpers are designed as steps on that model, and the roof-rack gives secure hand-holds.)

Ramp conditions can vary widely, and as I've found out, the same ramp can have different characteristics when launching and retrieving due to a change in tide. On one ramp, low tide exposes a slimy area that's rather challenging, on another, the concrete ends and there are a few feet of exposed beach at low tide. I've found lake launches around here the easiest, because the water levels are kept in a narrow range.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:42 pm

Well, I finally settled on this PTC, 2002, but only 60K miles on her. Drives great and purrs like a kitten. Hitch should be here Thursday from Hitchfinder.com - just need to figure out the electrical ...

[thumb=1023]

I'll try to get a better pic of the two of them "attached" next time I (FINALLY!) get to go back out ...
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Postby Alan » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:57 am

I'll just throw this in, from my experience and for information: A 4WD Jeep Cherokee, with 4.0-liter straight six, is about the perfect vehicle for any ramp situation, and almost any towing situation, you might encounter.

Four-wheel drive, in case the ramp is slippery and you need to get the tow vehicle close to the water, and maybe even drop the trailer tires off the end of the ramp? Check.

High departure angle, as they like to say in the 4wd magazines, meaning you don't have to submerge the rear end of the vehicle too deeply, if at all? Check.

Low-end torque in abundance, so you can pull out of any launch or retrieval making it look easy, knowing there are people who entertain themselves by watching people launch and retrieve their boats? Check.

So, "almost" any towing situation? Yeah. There are long stretches of highway in Nevada and Idaho where the speed limit is 75, towing or not. The Jeep is pushing it at 70 (as in floored, the automatic transmission downshifting and upshifting), and in Nevada, you get passed by every 18-wheeler on the highway.

A Toyota Sequoia with a 5.7-liter V8 handles the long-range towing with no apparent effort. Boat? What boat? Ten percent grade with a boat? Five miles of ten percent grade with a boat? What else you got?

Just for info.
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Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:39 am

Thanks Alan. The 4 cyl should be just fine for towing the DS around <flat> Florida, and our boat ramps tend to be not too steep or slippery. The old Altima did OK. Also, I don't have to use the interstate to get to any of the lakes I sail on...

I chose the PT for other reasons as well, since it will be used as all around transportation, not just towing. This includes the ability to put the dog (big White German Shepherd) in the back back, away from the baby in her car seat in the back, on trips to the local doggy park ... :D
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Postby GreenLake » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:06 pm

TIM,

nice car. Now if you only had a DS1, the wood trim would have gone well with the wooden coamings :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:10 pm

So true GL!

But methinks I'll hang on to the good ship DS2 The Red Witch, and I didn't find any red and white PT woodies in my search ... 8)
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Postby seandwyer » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:52 pm

Most of you guys that receive the mag probably already know - but there is an article in the new SCA about towing vehicles, trailers and the how to's associated.
Sean
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Postby TIM WEBB » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:08 am

Well, here they are together. Need to get a tongue with a higher lift ... trailer spare rides a little too close to the ground for comfort!

[thumb=1024]

Too bad it started storming when I got to the lake last night ... :(

Will try again today!
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Postby GreenLake » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:17 pm

Some recent thread acquired a side-discussion on tow vehicles.

Link: http://daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=19710#19710
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Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:11 pm

Well, got the car back today. $1300 tranny rebuild. Ouch. Had a long talk with my mechanic about what he found, causes, etc. Basically the tranny self-destructed, but that towing 1000 lbs (or most likely less - dunno, never had my boat and trailer weighed, but can't imagine it's any more than 1000) with a 50 lb tongue weight should be/have been OK. Most likely just a lemon. I hope so ...

I asked him about a tranny cooler, and he said that probably wouldn't really help, that those are normally only on heavy duty setups.

At least I wasn't towing when it went KC ... whew! I do feel now that I prefer the manual trans like I had on the Altima I used to tow it with. At least when the clutch finally gave out I had some advance warning ...

Sorry GL, didn't mean to hijack that other thread, it kinda just went there. Funny how the last post here was me showing off the new ride! :roll:

I do love the PT in all other respects, for everything from taking the boat out to carting the kid and dog to the park.

Bruce, forgot to ask the mechanic but I will, but I don't believe the PT has overdrive. It just has the usual PRND31 shifter. I normally just keep it in drive while towing, and if it feels like it's lagging (as it did going up and down the Tallahassee hills in May) I'll drop it into 3. I always use 1 when pulling the boat up the ramp, but only on the actual incline, then drop to 3 or D to get to the parking area. He told me that this was the way to drive it while towing, so I guess I'll keep doing that ... ?
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Postby K.C. Walker » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:41 pm

Tim,

I’m glad that you got your PT back on the road. $1300 sure beats car payments and you should to be good to go for a while now. The way I looked at it was that getting the tranny repaired bought me time. If I wanted to replace the van, I still probably wouldn’t lose that much compared to just letting it go unrepaired.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:00 pm

Tim,

I think you got off cheap. The two transmissions that went out in all the years I've owned SUVs/Vans came to twice or five(!) times that amount in today's dollars - neither one on my towing vehicle, or, I should say, one was on my towing vehicle but before I ever towed anything with it.

I love manual transmissions, but in some cars/vans they're not done very well, so they are clumsy to use, even if you can get them.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:16 pm

K.C. Walker wrote:The way I looked at it was that getting the tranny repaired bought me time. If I wanted to replace the van, I still probably wouldn’t lose that much compared to just letting it go unrepaired.


K.C.,

I've pondered that question a lot. Comes up with any major repair. One problem I see is that what you can get for an older car somehow is always less than what it delivers in functionality. In other words, if you sold your car (when running in good condition) and used the money to get an equivalent car, I firmly believe you'd be worse off on average - and not merely because of transaction costs. Once you use the occasion to "trade up" you've of course added new capital costs...

The way I think one needs to look at this with older cars (or boats) is that capital costs are not a factor, it's just so and so much of maintenance every year. So, for major repairs, averaging them over the probable remaining lifetime (indefinite, in the case of the DS:), semi-indefinite for the trailer ) and then see what this does to your cost per mile.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby K.C. Walker » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:03 am

GreenLake,

I think yours is a very sensible outlook on vehicle ownership. My situation of working at home and putting very few miles on a vehicle, changes my formula from cost per mile to cost per year, though. So, maintaining an older vehicle for me even makes more sense. I get a lower tax rate, the depreciation while it sits in the driveway is very little, and as you point out the transactional costs are less.

So, because I probably won’t replace the van for a couple of more years I figure I get the functionality and some residual value. At least that’s how I was optimistically looking at it. Also, I hate to panic shop for a replacement vehicle because I tend to live with them for a long time.
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