Mast Flotation

[seandwyer]

Hey Folks,

So, I've been thinking about possibly adding mast flotation up just beneath the sheaves - Does anyone think this is possible? My thought is foam injected into the mast head, but what kind of foam is the question. The obvious and available option is the canned foam insulation sold in spray cans - but I don't know if this will do the job, nor am I real sure about how well it holds up outside like that. Any ideas or suggestions? has anyone done this and if so, have you had the unfortunate opportunity to try it out?

In this months SCA the article about turning a DS into a cruiser illustrates having some sort of flotation sewn into the top of the main sail. Has anyone done this, heard of this or have any ideas about efficacy? Seems like a good idea, but I wonder how well the sail performs after this since it certainly wouldn't be able to shape itself the same way. I also have no earthly idea what sort of material could be that buoyant, yet thin and flexible that it could be sewn into the sail in some sort of pocket - who would even do this for you?

Any input is much appreciated. I still haven't been out this year. Replacing my center board gasket this weekend, then I'm ready for the water.

[jeadstx]

Be careful injecting foam. I did that a couple weeks ago (after a capsize) with foam from Home Depot to seal the mast and add flotation. I had a number of holes in my upper mast from where hardware had once be installed, then removed by previous owners. I thought (mistakenly) that the casting at the top had a solid base to seal the mast. I was wrong. When I injected the foam it came up thru the opening and gummed up the halyard sheeves. Took about 3 hours (and Acetone) for the foam to stop oozing out the top and for me to free up the sheeves. That said, I now have a foam plug in the mast head and another down near the spreaders where I later "carefully" injected a small bit of foam. The mid-mast foam also filled another hole near the jib stay that I was not going to mess with after the masthead mistake. The fact that the foam expanded to a hole 12" below the one I had injected the foam into tells me there is probably a plug in the middle of the mast as well giving me a water tight (hopefully) area in the upper part of the mast.

I also added a eye strap to the upper part of the mast to secure a small water bottle to add flotation. It attaches to avoid interference with the sail.

John

[seandwyer]

jeadstx,

I thought about the expansion problem, but figured I would just remove the casting and sheaves from the top, inject the foam, wait 24 hours, then cut out the excess with a razor knife. Removing and replacing everything on top is easy for me because when I replaced the sheaves last summer, rather than riveting everything back together, I used 2 long clevis pins with stainless rings in the ends. Seems to work just as good and removing things is as easy as can be.

So, have you capsized since injecting the foam? I'm filled with doubt about whether it is sufficient to keep the mas afloat.

So you have an empty, sealed water bottle fastened to the mast? doesn't it get in the way? Must be above the forestay so as not to snag on the jib.

[jeadstx]

seandwyer,

My masthead is riveted in so removing it wasn't at the top of the thought process, my mistake. Removing it would certainly be better than what I did. I had been planning that day to go sailing and wanted some foam in there in case I did something stupid again and capsized. My 5 minute quick job turned into a 3 hour fix-it job. I missed getting out sailing and it rained the next day, bad weekend. Be careful filling it tho, don't need much. Stuff really expands fast, don't want to overfill and cause other problems from the expansion.

I haven't been out since the capsize. Nice weather while I'm at my office, cold, rainy, and no wind on the weekends. When I did capsize tho (I have a DS2), the boat sat high on it's port side and the mast slowly started filling with water. I didn't turn turtle. A passing boater put someone in the water to help me and kept the masthead from sinking. I think a small amount of flotation would have been enough. I needed to find out what a capsize would do as I'm getting my boat ready for the Tx200. I only wish I could say the capsize was on purpose, but I can't. Just did something stupid, not even sure how. I had trouble righting it in deep water (guy in the water with me didn't know what to do), but I held onto the CB and swam it easily to shallower water where I was able to right it. I think if my masthead hadn't been a couple feet under water causing me to have to lift a sail full of water, it would have righted in deep water as well. One other problem was that it was over on it's port side. The port side had a 28 lb. anchor, my little 2hp motor and the icebox on that side. The icebox cover opened, spilled it's contents and filled with water. I had a way to secure it shut, but hadn't done so. On a good note, the only thing I lost was a bottle of GatorAid, yet unopened. Everything that was in the cuddy stayed there even tho my hatch covers were inside at the time. I still had my wallet, phone and camera safe in the dry bag. From now on tho I think I'll sail with the hatch covers in place and certainly on the Tx200. I'm making new covers where I can fold down the top half to access the cuddy if need be.

As far as the empty sealed water bottle's position. I'm securing it as high on the mast as possible without interfering with my windvane. It's high the the head of my sail goes and shouldn't interfer with the main halyard. I'll know more if it works the next time I get out sailing, maybe this weekend.

John

[seandwyer]

Wow - see this has never happened to me and I always worry about going out early or late in the season (when the sailing seems also to be the best) because I usually have little kids with me and water temperature is an issue. I have also been alone many times when no one from another boat would have come to the rescue - but I seriously wonder - can this boat be righted by a person in the water if the mast doesn't sink? If it can't and you have time to swim over and pull the sails down, do you think you could have stood on the CB and pulled on the shroud thus righting it?

TX200 eh? You will need to seriously keep up in the loop. I am so enthused about reading when guys use this boat for long distance trips and adventure sailing - there just isn't enough of that being written about.

[jeadstx]

The water was 60 degrees when I went in, but hey, I was fully clothed. I can tell you from experience that a DS looks a lot bigger when your looking up at the bottom. I've thought about the righting issue several times since my capsize a month ago. I'm a big man and had trouble, but then again my masthead was a couple feet under water and the sail was causing resistance (I forgot to release the mainsheet). Before I started to swim it towards shore I did release the halyard and brought the sail part way down. My thoughts are that if the masthead stayed afloat, you could turn the mast into the wind and use the wind to assist in righting the boat. When I swam it to shore I turned the boat so the wind was pushing the boat. With thecockpit full of water, reboarding was easy as it was riding low in the water. Once I could touch bottom with my feet and get a firm stance, I pushed the CB in and it righted easily. I must say that this was my first capsize since I started sailing in 1969 (although I was out of sailing for about 20 years until 5 years ago), I guess it was time.

So far there are two DS2's sailing in the Tx200. I'd like to see more DS's and some DS1's as well. I will probably have some interesting thoughts on it after the event.

John

[whitejw1967]

How I wish that I had heeded John's advice (jeadstx) or, more accurately found his post, prior to my attempt to inject foam into the mast. I injected foam through a 1/4 inch hold about 18" down from the masthead. Like John, and to my surprise, foam shortly poured out of the masthead all over the halyard (which I hadn't thought to remove) and the halyard sheeves. I thought that the casting up there was solid--IT'S NOT! This seems like an obvious design flaw (leaving the mast open to water entry). Nonetheless, this does explain why my mast took on so much water when it went over a few weeks back. Making matter worse, the guy at the store mistakenly sold me BLACK foam rather than white (which I had wanted--but then again, I didn't think anyone would ever see it so who cares, right?). It took me two hours of cleaning with acetone to get the sheeve and halyards working again. I think that's the way with boat repairs: plan on 15 minutes but be ready for three hours' worth of work.

BUT, maybe the foam will close the top of the mast to water, helping her stay afloat in case of a capsize.

[algonquin]

Here is how I approached the problem of adding flotation to the mast.

I disassembled the mast and all the attached hardware from the tabernacle on up. I fabricated a cover plate inserted just below the mast head pulleys. After I applied a high quality clear silicone to each opening and reassembled the hardware. The silicone is not visible after the reassembly. I float tested the mast assembly and it is highly buoyant. After 2 seasons of use I suspected there may be some condensation in the mast so I removed the tabernacle plate and much to my joy found no condensation accumulation in the mast. Brad

[K.C. Walker]

Brad,

This is what I like about this forum. Every once in a while there's a post that just strikes the right note. I've been thinking about doing this and wondering what the results might be. Thanks for the report!