Storage cradle

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Storage cradle

Postby heimtun » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:49 am

Hello all,

I hope you're all enjoying this holiday weekend!

I've been thinking of building a storage cradle for winter storage. One main reason is that I have room to store my DSII indoors over the winter - but it won't fit (length) if it is on the trailer. I think it would also be a good setup to get under the boat for maintenance - such as centerboard work.

Does anyone have any plans and/or thoughts about a storage cradle? Support areas? Etc?

Thanks in advance.

Wayne
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Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:33 pm

Two thoughts came to mind in reading this. First, I much prefer to work on the bottom (or centerboard) of my boat with it tipped on its side. And the second was, I wondered how you would move your boat from your trailer to your storage cradle?

I would think for hull support that you would want to support the boat with as much surface area as you can, trying to keep as much of the weight on the keelson and centerboard trunk area as possible.

KC
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Postby GreenLake » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:43 pm

The first winter I had my DS I stored it on its side (on Styrofoam blocks) with the idea of getting at the CB. It seems to have survived this treatment, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it.

The CB will extend 39" from the boat, if fully lowered. It may take less space to drop and extract it from under the boat (don't know, never tried that). In either case, that consideration gives the minimum distance off the floor.

For your cradle idea, I'd make 5 or six supports that follow the hull shape. In the back, those would be shallow V's, in the front, where they support the keel, they can just be flat. Covered with some carpet remnants, of course.

The details of these supports would depend on what material (preferably cheap) you have access to. For example, if you have plywood, you could make one of the rear supports by cutting two pieces that have the shallow V on the top and a flat side to rest on the floor. Tie them together with bits of 2x4 and nail 1x12 on the top (to widen the supported area) and the bottom (to provide a wider foot, so the supports don't tip).

Finally I'd fit some diagonal bracing in the fore/aft direction so that the supports can't fall over when the boat is on them. (Make sure you can still get to the CB through all the bracing).

If things rest on firm ground I'd probably stop short of connecting everything to everything and rely on friction for some things. In other words, it might be enough to diagonally brace these in pairs.

How were you planning to get your boat onto the cradle?

If you want to do work on the underside, it's better to tip the boat on its side (for the duration of the work).

If you have a hoist of some sort, that will make getting the boat off the trailer or turning it much easier.

If you can hoist and turn the boat to work on it, the storage cradle could be kept be very shallow. That saves a lot of material, and there's no longer a need for bracing. For a very shallow cradle it might be enough to build 5 or six supports that follow the hull shape across. As before I would nail each onto 12"x12" plywood pads that act as "feet", so they can't tip, but diagonal bracing would not be necessary.
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Storage cradle

Postby heimtun » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:03 pm

Here are some of my thoughts that may answer some of the questions.

My storage area is just a bit wider than the boat - I plan to attached the supports to the walls to keep them from moving.

I got a bunch of 6x6's from a friend - I plan to use them as the legs and cross members of the cradle. I can attache the plywood, as suggested by others, to these 6x6's.

I read about a neat way to get the boat off the trailer...
1 - Lower the front of the trailer as far as possible (this raises the transom)
2 - Place the rear support under the rear of the boat
3 - Raise the front of the trailer as far as possible
4 - Place a support under the middle & front of the boat
5 - Lower the front of the trailer to level
6 - Pull out the trailer
7 - Add more supports where necessary

Sounds like it should work.

Wayne
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Postby GreenLake » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:28 pm

Step 3 will require some heavy lifting. You'd be supporting about 300+ pounds, plus whatever the weight is of the front part of your trailer.

That said. two strong guys with a helper (to place the support) ought to be able to use your method.

The height might be enough to get the CB out, but not deploy it completely, but I would definitely overengineer anything supposed to support a boat that would be over my head for any part of the operation...

Incidentally, I've used 2x6 as levers before in order to lift a boat a foot or so off a trailer. You place a suitable stack of short pieces of 2x6 on some trailer member, then reach in with your long 2x6 and push down, while the short end will lift the boat. (A second pair of hands then pushes some wood blocks in place to support the boat on the trailer higher than the rollers. Works best of your trailer has sufficiently many convenient frame members to support both the fulcrum as well as the temporary supports for the boat.)
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Storage cradle

Postby heimtun » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:38 pm

I've actually did steps 1-3 earlier this year. I did them to raise the aft part of the boat off the bunks so that I had room to replace the bunks. I have a trailer tongue jack on the front of the trailer - it works well for this. Probably won't have enough travel for the cradle project and will have to work on some additional lift capability.

Wayne
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Postby Mose » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:42 pm

First post, don't have a DS yet put trying to save one from the graveyard, if my neighbor will give her up. Anyway...

My buddy and I did a cradle set up with his Thistle. We built a cradle that supported the boat much like the trailer set up, bow and stern support with a keel board bent to the hull.

Then we cut a small hole in the ceiling of his garage and attached an inexpensive electric hoist to the rafters. If I recall correctly he got it at harbor freight cheap.

We would back the boat into the garage on the trailer, attach the lifting bridle and lift the boat off the trailer. Pull the trailer out and roll the cradle/dolly underneath the boat and lower it into place. It sat low and we were able to work on things very easily.

He removed his CB after each race or outing so it was ready to work on if needed. But if we needed anything we could always hoist the boat up and work on the hull or GENTLY let her down on padding, roll her for sanding then roll back, hoist and on the cradle she went. It worked out great and didn't cost an arm and a leg. I imagine the primary cost was the wood for the cradle and casters.

I don't have a DS yet so don't know the ease in which she can be hoisted, on the Thistle it was easy.

Good luck.
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Re: Storage cradle

Postby Frank4567 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:42 am

Well I have done the roll over the boat with the mast not a fan. I own a DS II circa 1973. So I built a gantry 7/15/17 to lift the boat . I have not lifted the boat yet as I decided to go with full gussets instead of corner gussets on the top board to posts. I intend on using 2 " strap to lift. Goal is to check the bushing length and then get Rudy to mill me another one. .. probably in a couple of weeks I will lift her up..... so anyone with thoughts about the width of the strap.... please chime in.

Currently she is beached and like I said I rolled her over (reason to take the CB out and check for leaks) last winter .... slow worker life gets in the way .... for 2 reasons the cable was too short on the up haul line - I guess the guy cut it every time he put in the 1/2 " pipe fix between the double hulls and remade the thimble every time? and it keeled over and we got he up with help and water to the rails .

Her maiden voyage with the new owner and previous owner along resulted in swimming in the water and getting the boat towed to my dock. I like the boat - the big adventure not recommended - but like I said I like the boat and intend to fix her and have fun. The cold water was coming in probably from the pivot hole and there does not appear to be any other opening. So I ordered correct washers tossed the pipe gasket material and also ordered the bottom hull drain plug kit and cable assembly from DandR last winter and will now get the proper bushing and go from there. I did not discover the bushing width issue until I read the instruction sheet on the cable assembly from Dand R - in June 2017 ( almost a year after I got the cable assembly) which said the bushing should protrude at least 1/8"on each side of the board. Currently the bushing I have is 1 1/16" with a board that is 1" ...plus the width per the specs of the CB cavity- 1 3/8"..per know Daysailer org specs on her. My CB has the lines buried into the CB not attached by tang so I had to get the crimp tools and SS wire to get the length needed to properly lift and lower the board.
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Moderator comment

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:15 pm

It's nice to see new users actually reading the old posts, but if you revive an existing thread, please try keep to the original subject.

If you want to start a discussion that ranges more widely, but still refers to some older post, just create your own topic and add a link.

It's not that hard. Get the URL for the thread you want and click on the URL button to insert the "url" code. For example, my sentence above reads like this as I type in the editor:

Code: Select all
...just create your own topic and [url=http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3437]add a link[/url]


Note the "=" sign followed by the pasted URL before the closing square bracket.
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Re: Storage cradle

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:24 pm

I've lifted my DS with two simple ropes. I think I used the mainsheet and a halyard. For short term support that's all you need - modern ropes are usually strong enough.

I used two purchases (4:1), each attached to a block. I then tied a rope into a loop around the boat and through the block.

With this system it's possible to raise the boat, pull out the trailer and either set it down on some supports, or turn it on its side (the loops of rope will run through the blocks as you turn the boat).

Later I simplified this to "launching" the boat onto a piece of carpet, and then using two helpers to turn it around and upside down, first onto some tires, then lifting each end and placing stacked lumber to bring the bottom to working height (for painting).

(PS: don't follow your description of the gantry - needs pix).
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Re: Storage cradle

Postby Frank4567 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:49 am

Hi Greenlake

you are correct that a pic does make things clearer. I'm reticent to send photo as I do not want anyone to use. I used a photo from the internet without doing calcs; bad idea without doing calcs- even if it was lifting a car chassis - far more than 500 lbs. had to be doctored. like I said I built it and determined that 4x4s were not safe to lift 500 lbs did some research and verified that 4x4s could not lift 500 and took it down with out trying. I should know better.

Speaking of photos I am having a hard time with your description of using ropes , purchases 4:1 is the ratio of the pulley correct. Can you send a sketch.

On an earlier post someone lifted a Thistle which is the same weight 500 lbs about as a DS. Attaching a hoist to a house rafter - the guys were lucky, after my above research it is probably not worth the risk.

Gantry from harbor freight https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/ca ... _21628.jpg

I am also struggling with where you can put pressure on the DS hull, To fulcrum lift.. if anyone has a sketch on that
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Re: Storage cradle

Postby GreenLake » Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:27 pm

Not near where I can look at the purchase I used. However, now that you mention it, I may well have added a "cascade" to multiply the purchase by 2. So, effective ratio something like 7:1 or 8:1 if I used two double blocks (plus a single for the cascade).

The cascade reduces the available lifting distance by half, but my purchase covers the distance from the ceiling block to the nearest wall, so I can lift half that distance, not bad.

I used two independent arrangements, so each will hold half the weight of the boat (with a bit of a safety margin in case the weight is not fully balanced).

Take 320 pounds as the nominal load, that would require 40 pounds pull on the purchase assuming an 8:1 (ignoring friction). That's pretty much what I remember. The ceiling joists were clearly stronger than your nominal 4x4.

Later, I gave up on all of this and just used helpers.
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Re: Storage cradle

Postby Frank4567 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:10 am

Thanks for your help.

My neighbors said they would help manhandle the boat to the side; and since Frustration is another motivator to relook at the problem.

I probably will just fulcrum the keel up. Using a carpet piece on top of a now useless 4x4 and keep adding blocks of wood until it is of proper height and also put a piece of wood with carpet aft of the cb cockpit and continue until it is high enough to measure the opening and get a new bushing made. Also will lock in both sides temporarily as I lift it with an adjustable cradle...carpeted of course... so it does not rock off the supports.

again time is my enemy and will probably not get to it for a couple of months.
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Re: Storage cradle

Postby GreenLake » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:45 pm

CB issues can be worked on with the boat on its side.

For the benefit of those perhaps following this thread, I've looked at those purchases again. A triple block with becket where wall and ceiling meet. A floating double block to complete a 4:1 purchase. The double block is tied to one end a cascade, the other end is tied to the same spot the triple block is. At the apex, a floating single block tied to the line that lifts the boat (deflected 90 degrees by another single block, this one mounted to the ceiling). That line finally ended at a rope sling around the boat. (Actually I it ended at another single block, through which the rope sling (repurposed mainsheet, etc.) went. That way I could rotate the boat to its side will suspended.

(A floating block is one that's not connected to a fixed point).

The free end of the line comes down from the triple block to a cleat on the wall. As I wrote, I have two sets of these, so each has to hold half of the weight of an empty DS, or less than 300#. Pull required to hoist the boat is around 40#. There's some reserve for uneven weight distribution, but the limiting factor are the ceiling fixtures for which the safe working load was pure guesswork. Consequently, I never raised the boat very high above either ground or some other supports below it, but it allowed me to do it by myself.
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