Total Towing Weight?

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:32 pm

State papers on boats seem to be widlly inaccurate. There are enough instances of that here on the forum.
Possibly worse for older boats before HIN.

If you filled any hollow spaces on your trailer or boat with helium, it would get a lower reading on the scale, but be harder to stop. So, please, don't go there. :D
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby seandwyer » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:53 pm

But maybe for racing... :D
Sean
DS1 - 3203
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby kprice2982 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:27 pm

I finally had a chance to weight the boat as GL suggested. At least I think I followed your directions. I posted some photos on my web-site (see link):

http://www.wa5lpw.com/ODay.php

If I set the weighing up correctly, then the scale reports 115 lbs. That times 4 is less than the weight of the boat. So I obviously did something wrong. Taking a new approach and since I had the tire jacked up off the ground, I put the tire directly on the scale. This time the scale said 215 lbs.

215 x 4 = 860
860 x 10% (error) = 86
860 + 86 = 946 lbs Total weight for the boat and trailer. Reasonable?

At this point I placed the scale directly under the tongue jack. It weighed in at 190 lbs. Reasonable?

FYI - The boat includes the rudder, tiller, boom, mast, and stays. The life jackets, sails, shoes, food, battery, etc. were not on for this measurement.

Keith
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:20 pm

For my method to work the distance between the middle support and the scale should be as large as possible (cuts down on errors from where precisely the tire makes contact). Also, in terms of the scale, you need to find a way to have load concentrated at one point only. Perhaps a small block of wood between 2x6 and scale.

However, even with these issues your weight on the balance beam is nearly half of what you read from the wheel directly, so the actual error appears to not be outrageous.

Weighing the wheel directly, you only get a factor of 2, not 4 (as the balance beam would press with only 1/2 the force of the weight at each end, but the tire has the full weight of that side).

However, you need to add the tongue weight. 190lbs is way high for this and indicates that you could (should) move your boat back a little for better balance.

Using your numbers:

215 x 2 + 186 = 616, with errors: 677 or thereabouts.

That figure seems way too low. Either your scale is optimistic :) or you have a left/right imbalance in weight. A small imbalance comes from tipping the trailer in the weighing but shouldn't have resulted in that low a weight..

Perhaps the national helium shortage is explained if we open up some of your inspection ports? :shock: :wink:
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby kprice2982 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:46 am

GL thanks for your quick reply. Last night a buddy of mine and I were trying to figure out options and we wondered about moving the boat back on the trailer. We actually both pushed down on the transom with our full weight (325 lbs) and were barely able to move the bow of the boat up and the trailer not at all. I guess I am no where near the recommended 60/40 split before and and after the axle.

This idea brings up a new question about what should be supporting the weight of the boat. Is most of the boat supported by the rollers or by the bunks? My bunks run port to starboard (same direction as the axle) versus fore to aft. Currently, the bunks appear to support the weight of the boat as I can freely spin the rollers under the boat. This is opposite of how my Thistle is supported on a newer trailer. The majority of the Thistle is resting on its' keel and the rollers.

Thanks again for all the help.
Keith
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby pungoriver » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:21 pm

Perhaps you have a landfill or truck stop in your area. They have scales. Pull in weigh the trailer, boat and vehicle; then disconnect the trailer and weigh the vehicle and do the math. If you want more accurate results, find a place to careen the boat and go back and weigh the vehicle and the trailer.
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:31 pm

You should be able to lift the bow by just supporting one person off the transom.

The "strong" points on a DS1 are

1) the keel in front of the CB
2) the "V" behind the CB
3) the area below the seats (where the vertical meets the hull)

Area 1 you can support by rollers w/o damage, area 3 is weakest, so having long, wide bunks is the thing.

I used to have some rollers high enough to support area 2, but changed when I mounted wider bunks. I do have one roller positioned to keep the CB up.
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby kprice2982 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:36 pm

Update on my original post:

I finally had a chance to make some adjustments to the trailer. Like many things in life, once you do one thing it will generally create a new task. We moved the boat back on the trailer about 18 inches. I can finally lift the boat onto the hitch of the car without assistance. (Tongue weight went from 190 to 119 lbs). It has also made a huge difference in towing the boat! The "task" it created was that the original bunk boards no longer supported the boat. After reading several other posts concerning how to set up the trailer, I installed 5 foot long 2x4 boards. I also adjust the four keel rollers that were already on the trailer. I now think that the boat is sitting properly on the trailer and is well supported. Much to my delight, the boat rolls with ease when I am launching and retrieving. Prior to these adjustments it felt more like I was dragging the boat across the rollers.

Today I took the boat to the local "Flying J" truck stop with CAT scales ($10 weigh/$2 re-weigh). I loaded the boat with everything that I would normally carry (sails, rudder, tiller, life jackets, etc.). The only thing I did not have was the battery & trolling motor. The scale would not measure just the boat & trailer as it requires a min of 2,000 lbs to register. So I weighted the car + boat and then the car to arrive at these numbers.

2008 Honda Accord EX 4dr & O'Day/Trailer = 4,740 lbs
Just the car .... -- 3,480 lbs
Leaving the boat, trailer & gear = 1,260 lbs

If you subtract out the boat (575 lbs) and the gear (60 lbs), then you are left with a trailer weighing around 625 lbs. That seems too heavy to me but I don't have any reason to doubt the scales. Also, with that it looks like it is beyond the 1,000 lbs limit of my Honda. I think the tongue weight (now 119 lbs) is okay and I don't want to move the boat back any further as about 2 feet of the boat already sit completely off the trailer and beyond the bunks. You can see some photos on my web-site (http://wa5lpw.com/ODay.php).

Thanks for all the help.
Keith
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:22 pm

I would not assume that your boat weights 575 even if that is the official weight. Depending on the model there could be any number of causes for additional weight, such as waterlogged flotations in the tanks.
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:31 pm

Can you move the trailer axle forward?
Tim Webb
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(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:49 am

Ah, good suggestion if it works.
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby ChrisB » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:55 am

Keith,

Don't think you have any worries with the Accord. I towed my DS-II from Charlotte, NC to Huntsville, Al acrosss the NC mountains with a Toyota Corolla (1.8 liter). I would estimate that even fully loaded for a day's sail, the boat, trailer, and gear are equal to or less than 1000#.
Chris B.
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby kprice2982 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:25 am

I wish I could move the axle but it is permanently affixed to the trailer. Short of getting a new trailer and/or having the trailer axle replaced, I think I will live with it as I have it. I may try to move the boat back a bit more to further lighten the tongue weight. At least I can use my wife's vehicle for longer hauls.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Now if there were only some wind to go and play.

Keith
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Re: Total Towing Weight?

Postby jeadstx » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:56 am

Looking at your pictures, your boat sits on the trailer about the same place that mine does.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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