Sailing costs

[Baysailer]

In a recent post there was some discussion on the cost of sailing and sailboat maintenance. Overall I find it to be a reasonable hobby no worse than most. Here's my estimates per year. I maintain and sail 2 boats, the DS and R19 get equal billing for me. There's a third boat but I don't sail the buccaneer that much and went through it a number of years back so we won't count that.

OK so I think of one fairly major improvement per year, may not be a big money item though. Last year I made a new rudder for the DS, this year will be a centerboard. Cost for each is under $100 but the Rhodes needs new sails $600 while last year I upped the vang and backstay adjuster for that one. The Rhodes needs dockage so thats fixed $400/year. So it's pretty safe to estimate $1,000/year for my sailing fix. I'd put that in cheaper than golf and a lot more fun.

Note: I don't race but those numbers would certainly be interesting and I'm sure much higher.

5 year DS update and maintenance:

Refinish floorbards and woodwork $100 - 150
Upgrade running gear, blocks and cleats $500
New-Used sails $250
New mooring gear $300
New rudder $100
Floatation behind seating Free
Battery for elec troller $100
New halyards $100 (used old shackles)
New running lines $100-150 Bought on sale

[K.C. Walker]

Okay John, it's wintertime and I'm starved for sailing talk. You've got a fleet of interesting boats. I sort of think of them as being a similar niche and wonder how you compare your boats. Do you use them equally? I think of them all as DaySailer's, sort of. Obviously the 2+2 is supposed to be a micro cruiser. But you use the O'Day DaySailer on the Texas 200, so you're cruising that boat. I'm just curious. I've sailed beetle cats and I've sailed Rhodes 19's. It seems like plenty of work for me to just keep one sailboat boat up.

[jeadstx]

I really don't know what I spend on my boats each year. Currently I have 4 boats and all reside in my back yard on their trailers so I don't have any docking fees. Most of the modifications to my DS2 have been for use sailing the Tx200. I'm (slowly) restoring a Rhodes 19 and a Beetle Boat Swan. I work on the R19 more than the BB Swan. Recently I aquired a Mariner 2+2 as well and doing modifications to it for camp cruising on the Texas coast. I'm affraid if I kept track of my expendatures I would be in shock. I refer to the DS2, R19, and Mariner as the "O'Day Collection". I did get new sails for the DS2 this year which was above my normal expenditures. I enjoy working on and sailing my boats.

John

[jeadstx]

K.C., Let's talk boats. I don't sail all the boats at this time. The Rhodes 19 and the Beetle Boat Swan are both being restored. The BB Swan was given to me a few years ago. When I get it done I want to sail it on Lady Bird Lake in downtown Austin. The ramp is 5 minutes from where I work, it would be good for after work in the summer. The BB Swan is a fiberglass copy of a Beetle Cat made by Carl Beetle of the Beetle family. The Beetle Boat Company was eventually bought by Marscot who built the early O'Day boats. Some features of the Swan are found in early O'Day boats. It has the same centerboard lever mechanism as the DS1. My boats reside in the back yard so storage is not a problem and I work on them as time (and weather) allow. I have no covered areas to work in. The DS2 I sail the most right now and I've done most of the things to it that I want to do. The Mariner I aquired in October, it was in the right place (not too far a drive), at the right time and price (a time when I had funds available). I learned to sail on a 1969 Mariner 2+2 when my dad bought it brand new. When I got the R19, I thought it was as close as I was going to get to ever getting a Mariner, although I always wanted a R19 too. The Mariner and R19 have the same hull.

I currently refer to the DS2, R19, and Mariner as the "O'Day Collection". My last order from D&R confused Rudy because I ordered a Mariner tiller and he wanted to make sure it wasn't for a R19 or DS2 which he knew I had. Although I have sailed my DS2 in the past Tx200's, I plan to sail the Mariner this year's event. I know the DS2 can do the 200 miles without a problem. I plan to do try to race the DS2 some more than just once a year. Currently I'm re-routing the halyards to the cockpit on the Mariner. with the whole discussion on another post about blistering, I crawled underneath the Mariner to see if I had blistering, some cleaning needed, no blisters.

As a comparison of the three O'Day boats, they have some similar parts. All three are centerboard boats, both the R19 and the Mariner where also produced as keel models. The boom on all three are exactly the same. The DS2 and Mariner use the same spreaders. All three use the same 5/8" jib tracks, except the R19 is mounted on top the cuddy cabin and the Mariner is mounted on the cabin top. The R19 and Mariner use the same 165 lb. iron CB with same UH/DH system, the Mariner has an additional 200 lbs. of ballast along the CB trunk (100 lbs. each side). The R19 has wood floor, decking in the stern and coamings like a DS1, except the flooring has ribs that are structural that need to be replaced every 15 years or so. My R19 is having the ribs replaced. Greenlake, I think the R19 cockpit is as long as a DS1, but maybe a little wider. The R19 and the Mariner LOA is 19'-2". The R19 has a tapered mast with internal halyards, and jumper stays. The minimum draft of the R19 and Mariner is 10", maximum draft is 4'-11". Those are a few comparisons.

John

[GreenLake]

Thanks, John, for the nice overview. I've moved K.C.'s query and your post at the end of this thread since it fits best here; and then I moved the entire thread to "miscellaneous". Couldn't help myself.

[Baysailer]

I've lived with what John calls the O'day collection. Sailed a Mariner for years until it was destroyed in a storm, replaced it with a Rhodes as a direct one for one replacement albeit keel instead of a cast centerboard. Later got the DS to us as a centerboard that I could moor at my house and tow to other sailing areas. Still want to hit up the Adirondack lakes. The Mariner and Rhodes, same hull but the rigging makes them quite different, it actually took me a bit to get the same balance out of the Rhodes as I could get from the Mariner since the big heavy centerboard does wonders for boat balance. Also the Mariners mast is a tablenacle on top of the cabin and is swept back spreaders with lowers and uppers, the tuning is more like a J22. The Rhodes has fixed non swept spreaders and is keel mounted mast and is more akin to lightning's for tuning. The backstay definitely plays a bigger role.

The DS being quite a bit smaller (less than half the weight of either) is obviously affected by wave action more but reinforcing the hull would help a lot there. Where you can get away without hiking straps on the 19' boats I think they're essential on the DS. I wouldn't consider the DS tiring to sail but you do need to be more attentive, especially when it gets rough. Sail handling is a bit different, on the DS I use vang in more the true sense to bend the mast where in the Rhodes I use backstay to make most of the bend and vang sheet. The Mariner wasn't set up well for vang use but I'm sure people do. I also find with the DS jib inhauls are really needed to get enough power up front, rarely use them with the Rhodes. after the Mariner I find the DS centerboard is not my answer to balance the boat, prefer to leave it full down except on runs and use the sails as best I can to get the right tiller feel.

Towing and setup are a non event to me where with both of the other two I put it in for the season. Overall ownership is about the same for any of the three but the DS and R19 do need boom tents. Biggest issue for the Mariner is centerboard maintenance and pennant cable replacement every few years, Rhodes is yearly bottom paint, DS is mast stepping.

I could go on for a long time on this and really like all three boats, o'day made some fine small crafts.

Fred B

[K.C. Walker]

GreenLake,

Thanks for organizing us. I definitely took a diversion path on that coaming thread. You really did pull off making this thread coherent.

[K.C. Walker]

John,

I love the vision of five minutes from work to sailing on Lady Bird Lake. I had hoped I wasn't imposing by my inquiry, as you've written up some really great reviews of the Texas 200 and I hoped that you wouldn't mind writing a bit here. Your overview of your "O'Day Collection" is great! The R19 is one that has interested me for quite a while.

[K.C. Walker]

Fred,

This is really a good analysis of the "O'Day Collection". I occasionally think about adding a slightly larger boat to my fleet. The DS is, as you say, a great trailering boat. I've been thinking of exploring the coast of Maine, though Lake George in the Adirondacks would be fun, as well. I have reinforced the hull on my boat and it does handle chop considerably better than it did. However, there are definitely days that it is not well-suited to going out on Block Island Sound or Fishers Island Sound which are my local waters. It's great for staying in the harbors on those days or sailing Little Narragansett Bay, though.

Your analysis and comparisons of the handling characteristics of each I found quite interesting. The few times that I have sailed on a Rhodes 19 it seemed to me to be definitely drier and more of a sit in boat rather than a boat to hike out on.

I found your thoughts on balancing each boat interesting. I do kick back the center board on the DS a bit when I get the boat planing on a beam reach with the standard jib. Now that I have the Doyle UPS the board is almost always fully down, even on a deep broad reach.

[K.C. Walker]

I don't keep close track of the costs of sailing. I guess I give myself a theoretical budget and try not to exceed it by too much. If I count my time armchair yachting (finding good deals on parts) or yard yachting (working on the boat) then it's pretty expensive. If I count my time as part of the hobby then it becomes pretty reasonable. I bought my boat for $1000 in pretty good shape but have definitely upgraded it with some somewhat pricey items, like the Doyle UPS set up cost me $1000 once I got all of the rigging together.

I've had the boat for six seasons and I doubt I have $6000 in the boat. However, I seriously have to ignore the time, because I need a hobby and this one I really enjoy.

[GreenLake]

Yeah, the value of time.

To a large extent, boat maintenance/restoration is best seen as a hobby for its own sake. At least for the homo-mechanicus types predominant on the forum's "repair and maintenance" section

When I want to play with fiberglass, I want to play with fiberglass!! And if I didn't have a boat, I'd have to find a car or some other item around the house to work on. Long before boats, I made a clunker somewhat roadworthy again with so much fiberglass, I could have turned it into a boat. Finally saw some sense and junked it. More recently, I have used both epoxy and fiberglass from my well-stocked shelves for items around the house occasionally. Saved me from having to shell out >$100 in one case for a broken part on an appliance, that, against all odds and challenges of geometry and materials, I was able to rebuild with glass&epoxy. And, having gained experience with epoxy, I'm using it now occasionally when building furniture - it's great in situations where I couldn't get a tight enough fit or high enough clamping pressures for wood glue.

In all these projects, I don't count the time as an expense. I see it more akin to meditation. Time spent on an activity with different mental challenges from work (or family) and therefore useful to help me recharge.

[jeadstx]

I enjoy talking about the boats. Only difference between my R19 and Baysailer's R19 is that he has a 315 lb. keel and mine has the 165 lb. centerboard. Baysailer's R19 has the standard keel stepped mast whereas I have one of the hinged (like DS2 hinge) masts. Both keel and centerboard models are available on the Mariner as well.

I haven't been able to do the 5 minutes from work sailing yet, but maybe this summer. Lady Bird Lake will only allow mast height of about 20' max, my Swan has a 16' mast. I told one of the Tx200 sailors coming out of Oregon that he can borrow the Beetle Boat Swan for the event this year. That means getting it ready to sail by June. We are going to have a lot of Puddle Duck Racers (PDR's) this year sailing for cancer awarness for Livestrong. Estimate is there will be about 14 of them. For those who arn't familiar with the Duck, they are 8' LOA with a beam of 4'. As usual, will have couple of the stretched 12' LOA, 4' beam version of the Duck called the Goose. So my Swan should fit in with the flock. Of course there will be several other types of boats both home built and production.

When I need a break from working on the boats, I have a 1986 Jeep CJ-7 to work on and a 1956 Jeep CJ-6 being rebuilt.

John