Sleeping on board, revisited...

Moderator: GreenLake

Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:38 pm

GreenLake wrote:If you want the convenience of a sail cover (so that the sail can be stored on the boom) I would go for a boom-tent that attaches below the boom, rather than being stretched over it. Some people have succeeded in adapting the outer shells of recreational tents for the purpose. Even attaching to the boom from below allows some tension to be set up to stretch the fabric. If you need to use it for camping, you might bring some of those bendable fiberglass poles to turn the triangle profile into a half-round.

Many solutions like that could be quite functional and because you'd be adapting something that's mass-produced, could be cheaper than any custom job.


This is a great idea GL! I found my boom tent to be "less than adequate" on Friday evening during a major thunderstorm, so tonight I played around with some variations on this theme, and I think I've come up with a better solution than what I had before ...

- still working on it ... ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Sail storage on boom revisited...

Postby ChrisB » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:49 am

TIM WEBB wrote:tonight I played around with some variations on this theme, and I think I've come up with a better solution than what I had before ...

- still working on it ... ;-P


Tim,

We want pictures! I'm still trying to figure out a sleeping aboard solution that I like.

Chris
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby talbot » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:24 pm

First, is there a way to transfer the recent posts to a "sleeping aboard" topic? Because the topic has changed, and the subject is important.

Second, I think the issue of covering the boat is trivial compared to finding a place to lie down. The whole sleeping aboard issue has been partially addressed in bits and pieces over the years, with no one apparently very satisfied. (How satisfied can you be in a 17' boat with no flat surfaces?) But here is the list I have derived from the discussion:

Needed to Sleep Aboard a Day Sailer
1. A level surface. The cuddy floor slopes; the cockpit is blocked by the CB trunk. Solutions reported: canted foam pads in the cuddy, boards across the cockpit.
2. Protection from weather. Even in the cuddy, the angled hatch opening lets rain enter. Solutions reported: Boom tents, free-standing tents on cockpit boards.
3. Protection from bugs. Solutions reported: Mosquito-net boom tents; custom net inserts for the cuddy door; pulling the sleeping bag over your head.
4. Ventilation. Although the cuddy is the same size as a backpacking tent, the fiberglass does not breath like tent fabric, and ends up dripping with condensation. Solutions reported or proposed: Portholes in cuddy, battery-powered tent fan.
5. Safe cooking facilities. (This came up on the SailboatOwners.com forum, not this one.) The DS II and III have bilges that can collect explosive vapors, just like a large yacht. Solutions reported: Avoid naptha-fueled camping stoves in favor of alcohol or propane devices.
6. Sanitary waste storage. Ignoring issues of biomechanics and privacy (which most small boat sailors do), there still remains the risk of fouling our own nest. Solutions reported or proposed: hold it until you get to shore, bag it, or use an actual portable toilet.
7. Secure anchoring. Not unique to the DS, but the bulbous forward superstructure of the boat presents a big target to the wind and a large weather helm, such that the boat tends to tack back and forth on its anchor rode. Solutions reported or proposed: Standard ground tackle (adequate scope, chain, and anchor type), weather vane trisail at aft end of the centered boom.
8. Anchor light. Unless in a "designated small-boat anchorage," all vessels are required to display a 360-degree white light at anchor. This is usually at the top of the mast on a larger yacht. Proposed solution: Take a removable white stern light (e.g., Aqua Signal) with fresh batteries and run it up to the peak on a topping lift.

The last thing on my list is finding the time to do overnight trips. I would gladly put up with the rain, bugs, and cramped quarters if I could arrange that.
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Re: Sail storage on boom revisited...

Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:51 pm

ChrisB wrote:Tim,

We want pictures! I'm still trying to figure out a sleeping aboard solution that I like.

Chris

Chris, I'll post some pix when I finalize it. Right now, I'm still working with the 9' x 12' silver tarp, that has grommets around the edges. The center of the forward 12' edge is anchored with a quick link to the gooseneck downhaul ring. The center of the aft 12’ edge is tied off to the reefing cheek block. This creates a nice tight peak under the boom. The 9’ side edges are clamped to the deck-hull joint with spring clamps. To tension the forward end, the gooseneck/boom is raised and held up with a sail stop knob. The halyard could be used as well, by attaching the shackle to the tack pin and raising. The aft end is tensioned using the adjustable topping lift. I want to add some sort of anchor point in the center of the peak, to attach to the mainsheet eyestrap on the boom above, and to be able to hang a light from inside, but I’m afraid to sew anything there and create a leak. Might try magnets on either side, sewn into cloth covers with tie-ons attached. One problem I had on Friday (BTW, you didn’t miss anything but a big mess!), with the tarp over the boom/furled main, was that rain would collect in the folds of the sail near the mast, then run back through the sail and drip inside the tent. This method should prevent that. I realize some rain can blow into the ends, but at least it’s some protection. Once I get the thing fleshed out and get a chance to try it a few times, I’ll probably make one out of Sunbrella, with end flaps, and replace the clamps with snaps and snads, or use these:

http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DS400C
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Sail storage on boom revisited...

Postby jeadstx » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:29 pm

I have a boom tent that I have used that I got off eBay a few years ago. It's not specifically for the DS, but close enough. Haven't used it in a couple years, but we did use it on the Tx200 this year. We couldn't get it set up right tho as we didn't have the hooks that go on the rub rail to set it up properly. It needs the type of hook that Tim posted from D&R, but Duckworks has two that might also work. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/mi ... /index.htm and http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/mi ... /index.htm The nice thing about the boom tent I have is that the sides roll up which allows it to be used as an awning over the cockpit.

I also have a sail cover my dad gave me from his Catalina 27. It's a little big, but works.

As far as sleeping on board goes, the folding bed boards I made to widen the sleeping surface of the cockpit seats has worked well for me. They allow me to have sleeping surfaces for two in the cockpit. Of course Tim has his tent/cot which provides good sleeping for one.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby talbot » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:36 pm

I agree that a center tab would be a good idea for an under-boom tent. For the silver-tarp version, what about a big grommeted patch glued on with contact cement. Maybe cut a couple of grommeted corners off an old blue tarp. Leave plenty of fabric on the cut corners. Then glue them on either side of the center line. I used to put lash rings onto river rafts using this technique. If you encounter conditions strong enough to pull it free, I suspect you'll have other things to worry about besides the boom tent.

When you get to the Sunbrella version, the addition of a tab at that point would be no big deal for the person doing the sewing. I had a person sew a couple of mid-tarp tabs on the tarp I used in Outward Bound. She just added a couple of diamond patches and then stitched a webbing loop to the reinforced area. I covered the stitching with seam sealer, and it worked fine all summer. (And this was in the North Cascades, where "summer" is usually written in quotation marks.)
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:58 pm

The grommet tab idea is great. I'm partial to white tarps, over silver ones. Especially if you want to use them on overcast/rainy days (or at night). I use them for long-term storage as well, and while I suspect that their UV transmission isn't 0% I've not seen any real difference, but when they finally age, they make much less of a mess. And they seem to last longer, at least the brand I used to get.

Hooks on rub-rail: I've tried to bend my own hooks from aluminum and found that creating a shape that will actually hold on the rail is not trivial (did not succeed in the end).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby ChrisB » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:08 am

Tim,

My concern is just as you describe; in a strong wind + rain, how do you keep the rain from being blown into the sleeping area or into the mainsail itself where it can then run and drip on you? The obvious solution is the mooring boom tent sold by Intensity, DR, and others. This has the flap that goes around the front of the mast to keep rain out. However I object to the hefty price tag on this cover. I might have less problem with the drippy mainsail as mine would be rolled on the boom rather than on slugs
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:27 am

ChrisB wrote:Tim,

My concern is just as you describe; in a strong wind + rain, how do you keep the rain from being blown into the sleeping area or into the mainsail itself where it can then run and drip on you? The obvious solution is the mooring boom tent sold by Intensity, DR, and others. This has the flap that goes around the front of the mast to keep rain out. However I object to the hefty price tag on this cover. I might have less problem with the drippy mainsail as mine would be rolled on the boom rather than on slugs

Anchoring the tent below the boom solves the dripping sail problem. On Friday, the winds were 25-35 knots when the storm hit, and even though some rain blew into the open ends, I still managed to keep everything dry that needed to stay dry, including the tent/cot, which is actually pretty easy to set up in the cockpit with the boom tent in place. Yes, the available mooring tents are way too expensive, so I'll eventually be making my own, with end flaps.
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby jeadstx » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:00 pm

If you have slugs on the luff of the main, having a "Mast Gate" can be a real help getting a boom tent snug around the mast.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:40 pm

jeadstx wrote:If you have slugs on the luff of the main, having a "Mast Gate" can be a real help getting a boom tent snug around the mast.

John

I do have the slugs and the mast gate. What I've been doing is just pushing the slugs and gooseneck slide up past the mast gate. Elmer's Slide-All helps things move smoothly. But anchoring the boom tent *under* the boom takes the main out of the equation, so to speak. Going forward, I may still take the slugs out of the sail track before furling the main on the boom when deploying the boom tent, just to make it easier to slide the gooseneck up to tension the tent. In fact, had I done this last Friday, it's likely that the rain would not have run down the sail and dripped into the cockpit, even with the tent over the boom ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Sleeping on board, revisited...

Postby Swashbuckley » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:49 pm

Excellent topic, thanks for starting.
"Tiny Dancer" #6816
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