Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Moderator: GreenLake

Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby nojudge2000 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:03 pm

Hi, All
I've been restoring my beloved Merry Mac (DS 127) that I literally grew up on.

I hate to even bring up this nasty subject of motor, when of course we are all sailors here.

When my dad was captain, he used a very simple British Seagull 2 hp mower . So simple it does not have an idle or reverse gear!

When the girl came into my hands (with motor), being the purist that I am, I just got very good at sailing into and out of docks.

But now that I am not the young thing I was before, I think I really had better get a motor "just in case" I don't feel like sailing into a dock or launch area crowded with those powerboat people who usually don't get it that I can't stop or turn the lady on a dime.

The British Seagull worked because it has a very long shaft. The mount for it is on the deck above the transom so it sits high. We would clamp it onto the motor mount so that we could raise the propeller out of the water to remove drag once the sails were raised.

I was thinking, say, 4 - 6 horsepower, long shaft, and yes, it would be nice on this round to have an idle and reverse! The simpler the better -- I don't want to spend my time fussing with a motor, I want to be sailing!

What do you folks out there have on your boats? Bear in mind I don't have a lot of money to spend but will do what I need to (including wait) to get the right thing. Any suggestions? Thanks much. (attempting to post photo -- assuming you see it, remember that the Merry Mac is in the process of being repainted but she will look beautiful in a couple of weeks!)
Bonnie in PA
Attachments
Merry Mac motor mount image3-40.jpg
Merry Mac motor mount image3-40.jpg (210.53 KiB) Viewed 11937 times
nojudge2000
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:02 pm
Location: Grove City, PA

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:22 pm

Bonnie,

there are quite a number of threads here that go over the issue of an appropriate motor for the DS.

An electric outboard can be simple, Trolling Motors have their limitations, but a [ur=http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4413l]Torqueedo[/url] might fit the bill, at a price.

Another option are propane fueled outboards by Lehr.

Or just look here for a wide ranging discussion f the various outboard options.

These links do not exhaust what's been discussed on the forum, a bit of digging will likely unearth even more information.

Good luck with those powerboaters. I simply point my bow at their shiny side while yelling "no reverse!" :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby K.C. Walker » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:49 pm

I think that the modern equivalent of the Seagull is the Honda 2 hp (nice motors). You can get them in long shaft. It might take some looking and waiting but you can probably get one for a reasonable price, off-season. They don't have reverse but they do have a sort of neutral in that at idle the prop does not turn (centrifugal clutch).

The old Johnson and Evinrude light twins are nice motors (low vibration and quiet). My 1974 4 hp served me well for a number of years but, unfortunately, it overheated a couple of weeks ago and that was it. It's toast. However, the boat yard that looked at the old motor had a used 1995 3 hp Evinrude twin in excellent condition for $300 and that is just fine for me. It starts really well and runs great. I think that 2 hp is sufficient and 3 hp is sufficient +. It turns out that my old 4 hp must have been a bit tired because the "new" 3 hp seems to have more power. My old motor had no neutral and needed to be turned around for reverse. My "new" motor has neutral and forward and I like it! It still needs to be turned 180° for reverse but with the throttle on the tiller handle that works much better than my old one. Of the three motors that I've mentioned they're all lightweight which is good for sailing, not to mention having to lift them onto the transom.

If you sail in salt water, the Honda has an advantage of not being watercooled. The watercooled motors need to be flushed out every time you use them in salt water or the water jacket inside the motor corrodes and they will eventually overheat, likely what happened to mine.

Just rambling thoughts.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
K.C. Walker
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: North Stonington, Connecticut

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:05 pm

K.C., being single cylinder is about where the comparison between the Seagull and the H2 ends! Amazing how far o/b design has come in 60-70 years, huh? Funny thing is, I had been actively searching for a Seagull when I lucked upon a fairly late model H2 at a great price and went with it. I don't recall from my search - is the Seagull air or water cooled? It's been a couple of years ...

Anyhoo, to make a short story long, I thought, great, H2, air cooled, no impellers, no water jackets, etc., don't have to worry about flushing after saltwater use. That was until I read the manual a bit closer and talked with other H2 owners: even tho it's air cooled, it still has water intakes for exhaust cooling, and still needs to be run in a big tub of fresh water after use, saltwater or not.

Have had mine almost 2 years now, and it's a great little motor. Plenty of power (used it this Spring to tow a boat twice TRW's weight behind me), very reliable. Short shaft works fine with the stand off motor mount I made (see my gallery). Yeah, a bit loud and shaky, but that's just more incentive to only use it when I really need it ... ;-P

Oh, and while I'm being a cheerleader for the H2: it's a 4-stroke. No mixing of oil and gas hassles ...

Glad to hear that you have found a suitable replacement for your old "tried and true"!

- more rambling thoughts to go with your rambling thoughts ... ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: RIVERSIDE, CA

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby jeadstx » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:33 pm

I have a Lehr 2.5 hp propane outboard and I'm very pleased with it. As with most motors in this hp range, you have to turn the head for reverse. The motor weighs about 39 pounds and is long enough to be mounted to the transom without a motor mount. It will work with either one pound propane cylinders (which I use) or with an external tank. The one pound cylinder screws into the motor head and gets an hour of use at full throttle, more at slower speeds. A one pound cylinder provides a little more than a gallon of gas.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby GreenLake » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:59 pm

The Lehr is a "no mess" motor, as the fuel is clean as are the exhaust products, but unlike an electric, it's not quiet. At 2.5hp it's not as limited as an electric would be in terms of power; in fact, if you look at theoretical formulas of the power needed to propel a DS, it comes just about to 2hp. Really strong winds might make higher power of interest, but keeping the DS's bow up when going across such winds would probably require use of the CB. So I would expect limits in that direction.

A motor light enough to dismount entirely (on longer daysails, when you have space in the cuddy) has the advantage of improving your sailing characteristics. Also a reason not to go for a very heavy motor.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby jeadstx » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:38 pm

I always put the CB down just a bit, 6" or so when motoring. I have had no problems in strong winds with tides.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby nojudge2000 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:50 pm

I really appreciate all the feedback!!! You all are great. I'm in the process of studying all the replies and doing the research. Truly, I can't thank you enough! I'll let you all know when I get this figured out or I'll be back with more questions. :) Happy sailing. Don't we all hate to see the season end. -- Bonnie in PA
nojudge2000
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:02 pm
Location: Grove City, PA

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby jeadstx » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:43 am

For you, sailing season is ending. Here in central Texas, good sailing is getting going. From Memorial day to Labor Day, power boats tend to rule the lakes, the rest of the year it is good sailing. Besides, most sailors I know don't care to sail in 100 degree temperatures. September cools down a bit and good sailing can be had.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby lemsteraak » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:20 am

I'll put in my $.02 on the Honda 2hp. The drawback is weight and noise. Twenty nine pounds isn't much but a DaySailer is a dinghy.

Personally I'll stick with a paddle.

Did see something at the last Woodenboat Festival in Pt Townsend. The electric paddle http://www.electricpaddle.com. Motor weighs 8 lbs, battery weighs 8 lbs, and sits inside the boat. If you flip, the battery is buoyant and is sealed along with the motor. It is a little pricey, you can get a Honda 2hp for less but you get peace and quiet.
lemsteraak
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:09 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby ChrisB » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:19 am

Bonnie,

I have a 3.5 hp Nissan 2 stroker on my DSII. It has pushed the boat into some serious wind and chop. Mine is a standard shaft, clamped to the transom. For that mount I'd be better off with a long shaft but it works ok most of the time. No reverse; engine pivots. Up to about 3.5 hp, the fuel tank is integral with the engine. Pro; no bulky fuel tank in the boat. Con; you have to refuel more often. I bought the engine slightly used and so far I've had the carb rebuilt, replaced the prop due to broken blade, and replaced the fuel shutoff valve. Now I run ethanol free gas in the engine and add Sea Foam to the gas every few tankfulls.

Chris
Chris B.
ChrisB
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:42 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:41 am

Many seasons ago, I talked to the guy that does the electric paddle, and he thinks it's too small for a DS. It's listed for dinghies up to 9'. For those interested in electric propulsion, he suggested converting an outboard.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby lemsteraak » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:04 pm

GreenLake

Good point, the Electric Paddle is made to just replace a paddle, not much more. Gets you in and out of a marina or powers you back when there is no wind. They showed me their new project that they dub the Honda 2hp killer. It is a bigger paddle and they had it on display, it is just a little bigger but they said it will put out a full 2hp. They are a very small company and looking at ways to finance their expansion. The prototype looked and worked great so I think it may be worth the wait.

I haven't converted to electric yet, but would love to. I've had a couple Honda 2hp on different boats. We use them to power racing keelboats around SF Bay when there is no wind, so they aren't used much. One thing I have found is the old 2hp is better. It had a water cooled exhaust so it was a little quieted and seems to run a little smoother. The newer fully air cooled one is pretty noisy. I talked to a fellow who has sold and repaired Hondas forever and he concurs and says the old ones just keep running.
lemsteraak
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:09 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:27 pm

That's an interesting development. There are some limitations to trolling motors. If the new design ends up being more efficient / able to get slightly faster speeds for something like a DS it would be very interesting. There are some use cases where I would love to have just a bit more top speed than a trolling motor can deliver, like getting through areas with traffic, etc.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Recommendations on outboard motor for DSI?

Postby talbot » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:11 am

Follow-up on older Honda 2hp motors. Mine has all the previously mentioned virtues, but does not seem to have a centrifugal clutch. When the motor is running, the prop is turning, just like a cheap lawn mower. I have mounted it over a tank, powered up, and tried to adjust the carb down to where the prop wouldn't turn. Never happened. So check carefully when buying. The person I got it from swore it had a centrifugal clutch, but it was a Craigslist purchase out of town, so I never got to see it run before it arrived.

On the other hand, on a motor this small, it isn't as big a deal as it might seem. Leaving the dock, you start the motor with the boat tied up. It thrashes around a bit until you put in the choke and throttle down, but by the time you cast off, it's very well behaved. The one situation where it's scary is if you have to start the motor cold while afloat in a crowded area. At the "start" throttle setting, the boat jets ahead, and you can't throttle down until the engine has warmed enough to put the choke in.

I suppose it is a hassle de-salting the motor after a trip to the coast. But at less than thirty lbs, it's not physically difficult to manage, just one more task. Washing sand and salt off the sails takes a lot more time than dropping the shaft into a garbage can and running the prop for a few minutes.

I've asked this question before: Anyone out there have a larger yacht that you sail on salt water? What do you about salt in its auxiliary, especially if you wet-sail the boat?
Last edited by talbot on Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
talbot
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Next

Return to Miscellaneous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests