Ok I've been tricked

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby GreenLake » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:01 pm

There were apparently a large number of builders that tried to capitalize on the new-found fascination with sailing in the 70s, and emboldened by the change in production technique (fiberglass) that freed boat building from the shackles of tradition.

Not every one of them succeeded.

As a result, there's never a shortage of "mystery dinghies" and even popular field guides, such as "A Field Guide to Sailboats of North America" by Richard M Sherwood barely scratch the surface. Online resources, like http://sailboatdata.com do somewhat better: the internet is a bit better suited to updating and making accessible such data collections. However, printed works usually have more in-depth research and presentation.

That's the case when you compare these two as well, so to anyone interested in learning about and identifying sailboats on the water I would not hesitate to recommend Sherwood's book, even if it doesn't cover any new entrants since 1994.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:05 pm

Sailboatdata:that one shows the bowtie on the sail. Thats what lead to Schwill Yachts. Kind of like a treasure hunt.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:33 am

They have more of the smaller runs of boats on that site, but I notice that they kind of mix up several models of that boat on the same page.

Looks like Schwill built that model both as a centerboarder and a keel version. Presumably the latter had more ballast, but you can't tell from the data sheet. I assume you have the center board version, hence your initial confusion with the DS. You wrote your CB was heavier than you expected, did you try to weigh it?
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby jeadstx » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:21 am

If the boat was built after November 1972 there should be a Hull Identification Number (HIN) on the stern. A HIN will contain some letters at the beginning that identify the maker.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:39 pm

I did weigh it. 45lbs the centerboard is not as bad as I first thought. I plan on changing the way it was held in place. It is held in place from the bottom with a couple of brackets. I will redesign those.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:30 pm

That's double what the O'Day DS has, but still not very much. So, these boats seem to have pretty similar data, and modulo minor differences in hull shape, etc. should be comparable in the way they sail (unless those "minor" differences, while subtle, lead to not so subtle differences in performance).
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby talbot » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:12 pm

Most versions of the O'Day DS II use double bottom brackets that hold a Delrin CB pivot captive in a moulded chamber.
It's not necessarily a bad system. I've had it both ways (throughbolt and bracket), and they both work. The throughbolt is more prone to leaking that the brackets on the DS. So if the bolt holes (for 1/4" bolts on the DS) are in okay shape, you might see if all you need is a new pivot. Or if there is something else interfering with the CB, like a fouled cable or a swollen board.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:39 am

talbot wrote:Most versions of the O'Day DS II use double bottom brackets that hold a Delrin CB pivot captive in a moulded chamber.
It's not necessarily a bad system. I've had it both ways (throughbolt and bracket), and they both work. The throughbolt is more prone to leaking that the brackets on the DS. So if the bolt holes (for 1/4" bolts on the DS) are in okay shape, you might see if all you need is a new pivot. Or if there is something else interfering with the CB, like a fouled cable or a swollen board.


This boat also has a molded chamber. Steel pin is half inch I believe. The molded area looks to be three quarters of and inch wide.
I want to use a larger diameter pin and capture it in a bushing connected to the brackets that hold up the center board. Question: The opening the centerboard retracts in to is wider than the board, what kind of clearance do the Odays have? I think this one has at least a half inch or more on each side. I'm thinking a quarter inch would be plenty near the pin. Might need a giant washer to close the gap some. That would take out alot of the slop. Thanks again for all the information.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby talbot » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:50 am

The O'Day boards are fiberglass laminate, and pretty snug. I managed to jam mine by doing a barrier coat epoxy job on both the board and the trunk. I had to sand some of the material off to fit the board back in. A 1/8" uphaul cable, if it droops between the board and the side of the turn, can jam the board and require removing the whole assembly. Sounds like your board must have a metal core two weigh so much and be so thin. If you add laminate tp beef it up, you might end up with a real swing keel.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:38 pm

Good stuff here. I spent time today making plans and measuring things. Decided to reweigh the centerboard. It felt heavier then 45 lbs. It was, just short of 70 lbs. Planning on making the new brackets out of aluminum. Also traded the trailer that came with it for one that I had a 14' fishing boat on. Much better trailer, needed to redo the bunks anyway. The fishing boat weighs much less than the sailboat. Considering I plan on day sailing this boat only on little Traverse Bay Michigan. I'm liking the idea of a heavier board. Who knows I might be able to call it a keel again, considering its weight. :) Been reading all over this sight lots of good stuff. You're all right about not finding a active sight on the boat I have. If you all will put up with me I would really enjoy interacting with all here. It's going to be a long winter. :?
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:44 pm

talbot wrote:The O'Day boards are fiberglass laminate, and pretty snug. I managed to jam mine by doing a barrier coat epoxy job on both the board and the trunk. I had to sand some of the material off to fit the board back in. A 1/8" uphaul cable, if it droops between the board and the side of the turn, can jam the board and require removing the whole assembly. Sounds like your board must have a metal core two weigh so much and be so thin. If you add laminate tp beef it up, you might end up with a real swing keel.


Sounds like I can tighten it up alot. After measuring today I can add a quarter inch to each side, should help thank you for the information.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby talbot » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:58 pm

I'm thinking . . . if you now have a metal board that weighs >40lbs, and you add a half-inch of epoxy/glass laminate, you could end up with a board that weighs more than twice the O'Day CB. That is even considering that you might build a true NACA foil section that is thickest 1/3 of the way back of the leading edge.
You could still raise the board by hand without a winch (O'Day used a 70# CB in its model 222). And the Schwill boats started with a heavier board, so they may have the support to take the weight. Any of you engineers out there have thoughts on need for reinforcement? The bracket attachment chocolatehauler describes is usually anchored to bolts that go through a thick area of glass on either side of the trunk. And the board is partially supported by the water when in use. Even so, could a combination of weight and flex begin to crack the hull? And if so, where would you put the reinforcement?
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:29 am

Talbot I need to take some pics. This board keel has a very interesting lift. The board is all ready incased in fibreglass, and is shaped. Last night I had a thought that today I want to pick it up in the middle and see if the weight is evenly distributed or more weighed on one end. My last boat had a trailer winch to lift the keel. This one has two pulleys one small with a light cable to the board and a larger one on a common shaft with a light rope to a cleat.
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby chocolatehauler » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:59 pm

Finally got around to checking the board to see if it was evenly weighted. It is not. There is more weight near the bottom. I'm thinking there could be lead in there. Probably no good for racing but will suit me fine for day sailing. :)
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Re: Ok I've been tricked

Postby GreenLake » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:29 pm

Having a (somewhat) weighted centerboard should be useful for any kind of sailing; having the weight more near the bottom may be designed as much as an aid to keeping the CB down, as to help stability (given that we are discussing 45 lbs, I'd lean towards the former).

About racing: the biggest impediment to racing your boat would be in finding suitable other boats to race against. One design racing requires boats to be identical within some class rule, but there are events and fleets that permit or encourage racing in mixed fleets, with or without the use of a handicap system to try to account for performance differences. Even without a handicap, such events can be fun, so if there is one in your area, you might consider it - casual racing can be a good way to challenge your boat handling and wind-reading skills, not to mention that having a regular excuse to get out on the water is a nice benefit in and of itself.

Scheduled races, by their nature, take place whatever weather conditions happen to obtain, so, unless cancelled, you would be exposed to a wider range of conditions compared to sitting on shore and waiting for the "perfect" weather window for your daysail. Over time, that will also help grow your skill, and help you handle any surprises you might run into while daysailing.
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