Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Moderator: GreenLake

Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Postby klb67 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:15 pm

Not DS related, so I'll put this question here and hope it's ok. I know you folks have other boats and might be able to help. I fabricated a sailing kit for my canoe last year. The first picture is before its first sail - I made a few tweaks since then (finalizing the tiller connections in particular, and some changes to the sail control line rigging). The second pic is on the water. You might make out from the first pic that the daggerboard is just a board with rounded edges I got from another project. I've upgraded to a really nicely foiled ash board, shown in the last pic. I want to buy or build a protective bag for the blade, especially since the tip and trailing edge of the blade are about 1/4" thick. A Sunfish daggerboard bag might work, but might be longer than I need. Homemade may be better fitting and probably cheaper. I can sew. What I don't know or have is a blade bag to handle and look at. What's the padding used - closed cell foam sheet? If the padding isn't closed cell foam, what is it? Is it sandwiched between layers of sunbrella fabric or cordura or something else, and are 2 of those essentially sewn together? I'm looking for ideas or anyone who has a blade bag who could give me that info. The dimensions of my daggerboard are 42" long, about 8" wide, and 7/8" thick at the widest. I'm anticipating extra padding for the end and sides of the tip, and to drop the blade in from the other narrow end, with a fold over end and velcro and possibly a strap to hold it closed - similar to a waterfowl gun case. If anyone has info on how blade bags are constructed, I'd appreciate it. I wish I could get my hands on one, but that's just not possible where I am.

I'm excited to try the new blade - the old one vibrated with some speed, and I'm confident this one won't. I could keep up with a slower Sunfish in moderate wind last year, so I'm hopeful to be a bit faster and definitely able to point better. FYI my Sunfish is in the background next to my canoe in the first pic. Plus my DS II. Plus 17' and 14' fishing boats. My best friend has referred to me as Admiral given my collection...

EDIT - unfortunately the rudder is cut off from the original first pic - its a hobbie blade and homemade rudder head.

Image

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Last edited by klb67 on Wed May 03, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:39 pm

klb67 wrote:I want to buy or build a protective bag for the blade, especially since the tip and trailing edge of the blade are about 1/4" thick. A Sunfish daggerboard bag might work, but might be longer than I need. Homemade may be better fitting and probably cheaper. I can sew. What I don't know or have is a blade bag to handle and look at. What's the padding used - closed cell foam sheet? If the padding isn't closed cell foam, what is it? Is it sandwiched between layers of sunbrella fabric or cordura or something else, and are 2 of those essentially sewn together? I'm looking for ideas or anyone who has a blade bag who could give me that info. pic - its a hobbie blade and homemade rudder head.


My sailmaker offers rudder bags. Everytime I ordered one, he's talked me out of it. "You can do one yourself", he says. His suggestion is to take a piece of outdoor carpet (or car carpet), fold it over, and sew together the edges. This time around, I listened to him and started to make one out of extra material I had for padding bunks. I've cut the material, but then other things intervened, so I'll get back to it at some point. For the DS, my plan is to leave rudder head and blade and tiller (and tiller extension) all connected, just folded. The bag will then slip just over the blade part.

I have another boat which has a dagger board and for that one I have the bag that came with it. The tiller disconnects easily on that boat. The interior of the bag is divide by some thin fabric into three separate compartments, so a single bag will hold rudder, tiller and daggerboard. That one has a velcro closure across the top and also sports a stout handle.

There is no reason for the bag to be as complex in construction as it is, with Cordura outer layer and inner liner and whatever padding. And trim around the edges and the opening. I think that sailmaker has it right: get some suitable carpet or fleece type fabric and sew up a simple tube. Done. Functional and if it wears out, easy to make a new one.
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby FloridaTom » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:09 am

I agree not to over think it -
If you want a bag with a little more padding, then you can use a readily available material - Yoga mat.
We've used this stuff for a number of padding purposes - It comes in a couple thicknesses, and many cheerful colors.

It's actually pretty tough - It has some kind of fiber inside it, so it won't tear easily, and it seems to be quite UV resistant -
I've had some pieces on my roof rack (canoe padding), for more than 2 years now, with no apparent deterioration -
I've replaced the cable ties holding them on twice now, but the mat remains.

You could buy a mat (or a couple mats), cut them to size, and just sew the edges together - It won't unravel, or anything.
If you wanted to get fancy, buy some pre-made polyester binding from Joanne's or Wally World, and edge the bag with that.
If you want a closure, just leave one side long to fold over, and add some Velcro
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:48 pm

Made a bag for the rudder, Cordura outside, 1/4" foam tricot inside. Worked pretty well. No closure system, but I did put a T-17 loop handle along the leading edge to aid in lifting the rudder into the cockpit. Just my 2/100 of a dollar ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby FloridaTom » Tue May 02, 2017 7:17 am

TIM WEBB wrote:Made a bag for the rudder,


That reminded me, that I read somewhere about using a cheap-o sleeping bag to keep a rudder / tiller in.
I may have to try that .......... Hmm, must take some measurements
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby TIM WEBB » Tue May 02, 2017 1:28 pm

Now there's an idea! ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby klb67 » Tue May 02, 2017 5:06 pm

Thanks all. I have some extra carpet I used for bunks on my Sunfish cradle that sits on my utility trailer lid - I think I'll start with that and see if I have enough width to use. I'm mostly worried about banging the trailing edge and splitting it, although hopefully it's more durable than I give it credit for.

As an aside, I built this sail kit specifically to use for the week+ I'm on vacation in Ontario at a cottage on a lake, coincidentally where I learned to sail. I'm already towing a fishing boat and have the canoe on the roof, so I can't transport a third boat (either my Sunfish or DS). My canoe is necessary, as it gets us easily to and from the main house for meals and socializing with the bigger group that's there, especially useful for the return trip to our cottage at night across the bay when the mosquitoes are the worst - I'm confident you'd die of blood loss if you tried to take the trail through the woods at night.

The sail kit lets us have a canoe and also gives me my own sailboat to use (the hosts have 2 older sunfish and a restored 1940's alden sailing dinghy). The bermudan sail reefs around the mast very easily to reduce sail area and moves the canoe along very well. I managed 5.4 mph with my son in the boat with me, and it definitely sails faster solo. And that was with the old flat board that vibrated. I'm anxious to see what I can do with the new board - I expect to point higher at a minimum, and should gain some speed. It was a fun project to build, and I'm still tinkering with it and learning to tune the sail.
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby Alan » Tue May 02, 2017 5:25 pm

OK, off topic here I go, but this is too much fun . . .

That's a really nice job on the sail kit. I bought one and adapted it to a sit-on-top kayak, but it looks like you've got one at least as good for a lot less money. Your rigging is definitely more sophisticated.

I can easily believe 5.4 mph; last September we had different pairs of people taking the kayak out in a nice afternoon breeze, and it absolutely shot forward when they got the sail positioned correctly.

Here it is:

sailing kayak on launch ramp resized.jpg
sailing kayak on launch ramp resized.jpg (217.67 KiB) Viewed 11208 times
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby Alan » Tue May 02, 2017 10:26 pm

I should add that K.C. Walker also has a sailing canoe that he's happy with, and that I'm going to move the sail kit to our canoe for an adventure on a different lake.
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Re: Homemade blade bag?

Postby TIM WEBB » Wed May 03, 2017 12:59 am

Check out what a good friend of mine has done with sailing canoes:

https://www.facebook.com/lord.oftheflys
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Postby klb67 » Wed May 03, 2017 10:49 am

I've debated about adding outriggers, angled up so they only support when heeled, but so far I really don't need them. I do think I want to add buoyancy bags for when I capsize. I did an intentional capsize test and while the backer foam in the mast kept the mast from turtling until I intentionally turtled the canoe, and I was easily able to right it, you can't get in a canoe full of water. The inspiration for my kit was Solway Dory's expedition rig - they make some beautiful boats - check them out. http://www.solwaydory.co.uk. I've wondered why sailing canoes don't seem to be popular over here like in the UK.
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Re: Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Postby Alan » Wed May 03, 2017 6:21 pm

The outriggers on our kayak can be adjusted for height. They're set so they're a couple of inches into the water with two people on the kayak. They're helpful in surprise waves like the ones from powerboat wakes. At another lake we go to, there's a large rental canoe fleet that all sprouted outriggers a few years ago. I guess some people didn't get the memo about not standing up in canoes.

Being able to reef must be really nice. I don't have a way to do it - the sails attach to the spars, not the mast, and the spars are bolted to each other so they can't be rotated.
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Re: Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Postby FloridaTom » Thu May 04, 2017 7:21 am

klb67 wrote: I've wondered why sailing canoes don't seem to be popular over here like in the UK.


I've often wished the same thing - We'd have more work then :~)

We've made the sails for these rigs for many years now - The whole rig is pretty pricey, but the performance is also pretty good -
10 knots, with a good boat and the right conditions, isn't unheard of - It's a wet ride .........
BSDrig.jpg
BSDrig.jpg (253.21 KiB) Viewed 11172 times


Talk about thread drift .............
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Re: Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Postby Alan » Thu May 04, 2017 1:28 pm

Florida Tom write:
Talk about thread drift .............


Yep, looks like it's sailed away . . . :D

Hoo boy, does that rig look fast.
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Re: Homemade blade bag? - sailing canoe edition

Postby FloridaTom » Sun May 07, 2017 10:55 am

OK -
Since I needed a bag for my rudder, I decided to take my own suggestion -
With a $12 Amazon warehouse deal, I got a really nice rudder bag, mislabeled as a Wenzel youth summer camp sleeping bag :mrgreen:

rudder bag.jpg
rudder bag.jpg (230.85 KiB) Viewed 11144 times

Also available in pink / purple, for those so inclined ...........
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