When to sail a DS heeled ?

Moderator: GreenLake

When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby goldtoothgirl » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:51 pm

GreenLake wrote:Unlike a keelboat, you don't want to sail the DS heeled, except temporarily as you regain control from a gust, or later, when experienced, you might like to ride on that knife's edge of vanishing stability. But until you get the hang of the difference, try to keep the gusts to well under 15 as you figure things out.


Would anyone like to expand on this quote? I am familiar with Catalina 22 & 25 and on strong days it seemed that is how we sailed all day long- heeled. Both the 22 and 25 Catalina are swing keels.
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby Alan » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:10 am

The Daysailer has a planing hull, not a displacement hull.
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:16 pm

This discussion started in another topic, but it's something that could be of general interest, so I took the relevant posts and morphed them into the start of this topic.

There are situations when you want to sail the DS very flat, and times when you don't. But as I wrote, the DS is not a keelboat. There are planing keelboats nowadays, so a complete answer would be expected to be a bit detailed.

Anyone? What do you know, what have you been able to confirm for yourself.
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:45 pm

We like having a 10 degree heel when in lighter airs. It does a couple things, it shapes the main and creates a small amount of weather helm.

Downwind our aim is to lower drag so we try to balance out the helm. The curvature of the hull acts like a big rudder and will steer the boat. We heel the boat slightly to counter any balance issues with the helm. Seems to be a bit faster.

In high winds I like a slight heel, maybe 5 degrees, it just feels better. It is tough to get a DS to plane close hauled but if you crack off a little an have the boat flat she can get up on a plane and it can be a huge advantage when racing.

Heeling can really increase leeway especially on keelboats. I had a keelboat with a very heavy mast so my buddy told me he used a strategy to sail right behind me going upwind. A big gust would cause us to heel over and he said we would just drift off to the lee and give him a great passing lane, the dog.
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby Merlin-2977 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:31 pm

In VERY light air (3 mph) and flat water we have found it advantages to heel the boat over to reduce drag as well as help the sails take shape. Any winds higher than that will need excessive rudder (drag) to offset the steering caused by the hull shape. Downwind keep the boat flat and move your weight around to avoid using the rudder (drag).
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby GreenLake » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:35 pm

Heeling at very light winds: done that and seems to work. ~2-3 knots (or ~3mph) seems a good ball-park figure for the upper end of the wind speed range. But how much heel? Almost any amount of heel would work to get the boom to the downwind side and to help sail shape. But to get wetted area reduction would seem to ask for more than minimal heel. And then there's the question of direction:

Lasers would heel to windward, because it raises more sail area into higher distances above the water (with laminar flow at these low velocities, the higher up you go, the faster the wind blows). The more you heel a laser the higher the sail goes and the lower the wetted area and with it the skin friction; both effects seem to go in the same direction.

On the DS, I've only ever induced heel to leeward. That lowers the sail area, so not something you'd want to overdo. On the other hand, minimal heel isn't going to change the wetted area very much, so you wouldn't get the reduction in skin friction. Anybody have a ball-park figure? (Heeling to windward doesn't work with a jib, because in lighter winds it would backwind; the Lasers, with a single sail, rely on the boom to keep the mainsail on the leeward side - I've seen that maneuver mainly downwind, whereas I would heel the DS to leeward on all points of sail to reduce skin friction).

At the upper end of moderate, to strong winds, I often find that a slight heel gives me a better feel for the boat. Now, is that beneficial, or am I sacrificing boat speed here? I've seen other (more) experienced sailors do the same, not quite sailing their boats flat (or mine, when asked to helm).

Subjectively, I would say, it doesn't feel like too much weather helm (not until we get close to being overpowered in a gust). Are you guys saying that this is deceptive?
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby Cliff » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:55 pm

In most cases a DS is a displacement hull. Only occasionally do skippers get their boats on a plane. Another of Uffa's dingeys, the Jolly boat, was meant to be sailed on a plane much more consistently with a trapeze, 18' LOA, and weight @ 300#.

I've seen videos of the DS consistently on a plane with a trapeze but it's not class legal.
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:02 pm

If you want to rig a trapeze and enjoy going fast - why not? "Class legal" applies to organized races only. Can't use one there, but racing's not everything.
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby RobH912 » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:22 pm

Cliff wrote:Another of Uffa's dingeys, the Jolly boat, was meant to be sailed on a plane much more consistently with a trapeze, 18' LOA, and weight @ 300#.


Cliff - Had never heard of a Jolly Boat. Here's a link to more info.

https://www.fbyc.net/club/history/jeres ... jollyboat/

SO Light.

Thanks for sharing.
Rob

DS1 #14061
DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: When to sail a DS heeled ?

Postby Cliff » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:49 pm

Rob
Thank you for the link--I had one during the summer of 67 but had to sell it when I went into the service. Had many an adventure that summer on her--wonder why more boats were not made with the molded plywood hulls like the Jolly--very strong and light.
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