Hull flexing on DS1

[kkearns]

Hi Everyone:

I just purchased and refurbished a 1965 DS1. Launched her this weekend and she is great on the water. However, I noticed when moving around the cockpit on the bare floor (without floorboards) that there is flex in the bottom of the boat when in the water. It feels rather spring like. I do not notice this flex when the boat is out of the water and on the trailer. When I purchased the boat I checked for soft spots in the hull by knocking on it all over with the handle of a hammer. It seemed totally solid to me, with no blisters or obvious flaws in the gel coat.

Please... someone tell me that this flexing is normal for this boat when it is in the water.

Kevin Kearns

[algonquin]

M y DS1 is a 1963 and the floor does flex some when in the water. I believe this is pretty normal as the floor is thin and does not have any lateral reenforcement. The design really requires the use of floor boards to help distribute crew weight. Brad

[GreenLake]

Brad is right, but if you want to use your DS without floorboards or need a stiffer boat, there are ways to add strength to these panels.

Some people add various stringers - there was a long discussion on that here on the forum earlier this year.

Other people add foam core. K.C. Walker has done this modification and describes how to do it.

[Peterw11]

My 1968 DS1 flexes a bit, too. It's understandable from an engineering standpoint, as the floor is essentially a flat section with relatively little reinforcement.

I also notice the flat sides of my CB trunk have some visible flex as well, particularly in choppy water or when hitting some big wakes.

That said, she's a dry hull with no visible cracks or faults.

Not to worry. I imagine they all do it.

[kkearns]

Thank you for your responses to this and my previous posts. I have owned several boats (Flying Scot, C Scow, Capri 22) and have been sailing since I was quite young. The purchase of this 1965 DS1 (#1827) was somewhat spontaneous, and I have posted several questions on this site to which I have received tremendously helpful responses. I felt the boat was structurally sound when I purchased her, but she was a mess cosmetically. If anyone is interested, I have compiled some photos of the "restoration" on this site:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40350223@N07/?saved=1

The floorboard under the cuddy will need to be a winter project, but I was able to get the main cockpit floorboards in decent shape for the remainder of the season. For what it is worth to others, here are just a few things I learned in this process (and I hasten to add that I am not an experienced "do it yourselfer" ... just a guy with a lot of determination and love of boats):

1. In boats of this vintage, look for dry rot in the transom first. To my knowledge, that is the only part of the hull that has a wooden core

2. When reattaching the teak coamings to the deck, I chose to drill holes through the stringer and attach with stainless bolts rather than reuse the old wood screws.

3. 8 coats of varnish on the coamings was sufficient, but I wish I had sanded more thoroughly between coats. Also I wish I had used a better marine varnish specifically designed for marine use.

4. I had a hard time finding a rubber gasket that would replicate the strip between the coamings and the deck, so I just reused the old gasket. Then, too late, I saw a string on this site that discussed a product at Home Depot. Oh well ...

5. I chose not to varnish the floor boards, but rather just put some teak oil on them. I'm not a wood expert, but I'm told they are mahogony, not teak. But the oil seems to look nice and does not slip.

6. I love a shining gel coat but unfortunately this hull would not respond to rubbing compound. Rather than paint the hull, I decided to try a product called New Glass 2, which is some sort of polymer coating that one applies in multiple coats. I'm told it will last 1-3 years between applications. Frankly, the hull looks fantastic. I can't testify to the durability of the finish, but I am certainly pleased so far. The pictures show the mirror finish.

7. I bit on the deal from Intensity Sails. The jib arrived first and the main is in transit. Can't beat the price. The jib seems to be well constructed and with a very nice shape.

8. Finally, I just love the way this boat sails. My brother has had a DS II for many years, so I was familiar with the handling of this boat. Again, I have sailed Flying Scots and, frankly, I think the DS is far more forgiving than the Scot. On the sentimental side, this particular boat was built just about the time my dad and my brother were teaching me to sail. Thus, it's sort of fun to think that she and I have been sailing about the same number of years -- 44!

Again, thanks to everyone for your helpful advice. I'm hoping for many more years from this boat.

Kevin Kearns

[Peterw11]

Kevin:

Great pics and a really nice job on the boat (a twin to mine). You've done what I hope to do, if I ever get around to it. I'm particularly interested in refinishing my wood trim. It's pretty dull and weathered, but solid enough to refinish. I've yet to decide what process and product to use.

Also, I'm intrigued by your jib cleat mounting box on the CB trunk. I've been kicking around a few ideas to make my cleats easier to reach and manipulate. Mine are mounted on the thwarts and aren't that easy to work with. I changed their orientation from 90 degrees to the trunk to 45, and that made a big difference, but I like what you've done with yours.

Terrific job on the hull, as well. That New Glass stuff really works, I guess.

BTW, I've have an Intensity main, which I've sailed 4 or 5 times so far. I'm hardly an expert, but I've been really impressed with the construction, particularly at the price.

My kids gave me the money for a new jib as a Father's Day gift, but I've yet to order it.

If you like the jib, I think you'll like the main, as well.

[kkearns]

Peter,

Thanks for your comments and advice on the sails. The cleat box you mention was actually installed by the previous owner, and I have to admit it is pretty clever. What you don't see is that he lashed two basic blocks to the cleat just forward of the box (the standard O'Day cleat that is often seen on the top of the centerboard trunk). These lashed blocks then act as a sort of flexible turning block for the jib sheets. Thus, the jib sheets run from the jib of course, to the turning blocks mounted on the wood coamings, then down to the turning blocks that are lashed to the cleat that is mounted on the centerboard trunk, then finally they are led aft to the cleat box. I will likely replace those old cleats on the box with some nicer Harken equipment. But so far they work very nicely, especially when single handing.

Kevin

[K.C. Walker]

Hi Kevin,

Great job refurbishing of your boat!

I bought a DS1 last year and sailed it for a good part of the summer. It's a great boat. I did have my misadventures with deferred maintenance that the previous owner handed off to me. But I felt like the boat was in pretty good shape.

Then, I started asking the same question you did about hull flexibility. If you compare this hull to a flying Scot, both in good shape, the DS1 hull is definitely more flexible. It sounds like you know what you're doing and if you have no cracks or blisters it's probably fine.

Some of the DS1s came original with stringers and some did not. It appears yours is one of the ones without. I would think that this would likely make your hull a little more flexible than the ones with stringers. As far as performance goes, unless you're racing, I doubt the hull flexibility would be an issue.

I decided that my boat was too flexible on the bottom. I at first thought I would just repair the stringers. The original stringers were balsa core and had rotted out. Long story short… big can of worms. I ended up doing extensive work to stiffen up the bottom. I put a core in the bottom and it's as stiff as a Scot now.

I would caution about the flexibility in one regard, though. I think that most of the damage to the bottom of these boats happens trailering. In the water I don't think it's a problem. Bouncing down the road with an improperly supported boat can do significant damage in a short amount of time. I think this is part of the problem that my boat had, as it was on an EZ Loader roller trailer.

So I have a question. What was the rubber gasket at Home Depot to put behind the coaming?

Anyway, it looks great!

KC

[GreenLake]

K.C. you'll find the original post here:
http://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1469&start=0&postdays=0

[K.C. Walker]

K.C. you'll find the original post here:
http://www.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1469&start=0&postdays=0

Thanks Greenlake!

[gary l. britton]

Hi:

I want to know where you purchased the "New Glass 2". Marine store, building supply, auto supply, WalMart?? I am impressed with your restoration and wish I would get my act together and fix my DS I. I have what I call a baby blue hull, but it could be oxidation and age. (1966 model) Have fun sailing your DS I and hope she gives you many, many years of enjoyment. I just love mine. I purchased my DS I about 8 years ago. I also have been thinking of new sails and it seems several members of this forum are impressed with the Intensity sails. Guess I'll have to look them up.

Take care and fair winds

Yukonterr

1966, DS I
"Dancing Girls II", #3235

[gary l. britton]

how many coats of the New Glass 2 did you apply to get such a wonderful result? Did you sand or buff between coats.

Fair winds

Yukonterr
1966, DS I
"Dancing Girls II", #3235

[kkearns]

Several of you asked about New Glass 2. This product is purchased directly from the manufacturer on the web at:

http://www.newglass2.com/cgi-bin/cp-app ... t=&catstr=

The instructions come with the product. Relatively little surface preparation is needed. Primarily, the hull should be cleaned thoroughly. I did purchase the New Glass cleaner as well as the restorer but I think you can accomplish the same result with a thorough cleaning of the hull.

My hull is 45 years old, baby blue in color, and the years of oxidation had left it a dull and chaulky mess. No amount of rubbing compound would restore the shine. It was either paint the hull or try this product. I decided to try this first.

The product is applied with a applicator that comes with the product. At least five coats are required. The first few coats look horrible because the treatment is being absorbed into the surface. But coats 3,4 and 5 really begin to restore the original luster to the hull. I'm certain that I did not use even 20% of the bottle with these five coats. By the way, it only takes a minute for the product to dry, so the coats go on quickly. I did my entire boat in about 90 minutes or so.

I caution you, however, that this shine is not permanent. I'm told that it will last 2-4 years, depending on exposure and care. I'm told by the manufacturer that a coat of wax (NuFinish) will help prolong the life. When the shine begins to break down after a few years, you need to remove the old coatings and apply it again. You can't just reapply the product ... you need to start over. I can't honestly say how difficult it will be to remove the old coats. Again, the manufacturer, with whom I've exchanged some helpful emails, assures me that it is not too difficult.

For me, it was worth a try and I am so far delighted with the result. I hasten to add that I am not a representative of this product in any way. I can't remember where I heard about it ... perhaps in some sailing magazine or from another sailor.

Kevin

[GreenLake]

From looking at their literature, I tend to think the principle behind this stuff is similar to ingredients in certain floorcare products like Mop&Glo, which also provide long-lasting but non-permanent shine. They are usually removed with ammonia-based cleaners, so I suspect that's what would need to be done here as well.

For a small boat, like a DS, it sounds like a reasonable investment in regular maintenance.

[seandwyer]

I know a lot of people have removed their floor boards, either because they are old and shot, or because they race and want to do without the weight - but from a structural standpoint, I think I am also hearing that the floor boards distribute the weight more evenly and therefore have a purpose. In my boat, having an original hull that has never been stiffened or reinforced, what is the consensus with regards to safety? Lets say you want to have many people on the boat at once - probably better to keep the floor boards in the boat I'm guessing? I've experienced a bit of the flexing you guys are talking about and have even seen it in the floor when the boat is on the trailer and I'm messing around in the boat. I'm just curious if the boards really have a purpose other than keeping your feet dry and looking nice.