floorboards

[dannyb9]

i got a lovely old '68 ds1 # 3464 last spring. i have been sailing it 2-3 times a week off our tidal marsh bank, what a great boat! meanwhile i have worn the varnish off the floorboards. the beach here is a sand and mud mix, very abrasive. lotsa wear on the floors. so, i have sanded the aft floorboards down to bare wood (not easy and not something i want to do every winter), and now i'm considering how to refinish the floors. i see my options as cetol marine, soft but easy to maintain- varnish, harder and harder to maintain- deks olje, an oil that weathers but helps maintain the wood- and paint, the least maintenance alternative. whaddya think?

[GreenLake]

You could also use an epoxy treatment (for a description see SystemThree's site for their pamphlet on "Preserving Outdoor Wood"), which includes a covering layer of varnish or outdoor Polyurethane.

The result will be incredibly tough, but the outer layer will have to be kept up as epoxy doesn't like UV. Because the epoxy will keep moisture from swelling the wood, scratches are more easily repaired.

I've only done coamings and thwarts in that method, but the edges or the screw holes of the coamings used to be a critical point - no more.

A friend maintains a set of porch railings with Cetol. Also good experience, but they do have to be touched up yearly.

What I can tell you to stay away from is regular varnish or PU applied without the epoxy underlayer. Any scratch or crack will let in moisture, and the varnish will fail and you'll have to sand the stuff back to bare wood all the time.

I did that at one point (more than once with the floor boards even) and despite the most careful application, the coating failed after not even two seasons (tarp covered outdoor storage when not sailing).

Hope this helps.

[Peterw11]

My floorboards are stacked in the garage as I prepare to repair and refinish them as well. I've yet to determine what makes the most sense as far as refinishing.

I used Bristol Finish on my coamings and thwarts with good result, but I don't think I want to go that route on the boards.

Whatever the factory used seemed to stand up pretty well, but I'm sure there are more durable alternatives available today.

I'll be monitoring this thread, as I have no idea how to address this issue, either.

My boards (1968 hull, also) have a reddish hue where the edges are chipped. I assume this means they're mahogany.

[navahoIII]

Yes, it seems to be the consensus that the boards, coaming and thwarts in (at least) the early DSIs are of Phillipine mahogany.

My only problem with the boards is their thickness (or lack thereof). I have had to patch them underneath with cross strips and epoxy twice in two years (not all of them, just two boards) due to fracturing when stepped upon. I believe the thickness is only 3/8". Chunkier would have been much better. Also, the footings are spaced about 15" apart, which is too wide. Remedy? thicker boards or closer footings!

[itsermam]

Second on the wood, at least for the '60s DSIs, being Philippine Mahogany and that the wood is thin (7/16th on mine before the latest sanding).

I am using Cetol marine light on mine. I am 3/5ths of the way done and it looks real nice, but I cannot yet speak to durability - most people I have talked to say it holds up quite well, especially if your are diligent about touching up any chips or scratches.

Good luck on the project!

[Peterw11]

I agree the boards are on the thin side (7/16" sounds about right) but the upside is that they are fairly light, which is particularly useful to me as I typically will pull the rearmost sections out and stack them on the seats when the boat is beached and not in use.

Even though I use a boom tent, (bought new from Intensity last summer, nicely made and well worth the money) she will accumulate an inch or two of water after a particuarly heavy rain, meaning the rear boards are sitting in a puddle, sometimes for days at a time.

Lighter boards are easier to haul out and storing the boards so they stay dry is a good idea, IMO.

Even though I have the complete set, I consider the crosswise section under the rear deck unnecessary and usually leave them home, in the garage, all summer.

I usually sail barefoot in warm weather and like the feel of wood underfoot. Even though I went with high gloss on the hull brightwork, I'm looking to duplicate the original satin appearance on the floorboards .

[pnichols]

I have been debating about what to use when I refinish my floorboards this spring.

I was not looking forward to all of the stripping and sanding that I knew was needed to prepare them. So I looked into having them 'dip stripped' here in CA. Unfortunately I could not find someone to do this at a reasonable price.

I was in the Portland OR area over the holidays and so I looked into who might be able to do this there. I found a stripper who could do this at a much more reasonable price. So I just had them 'dipped' by Tim Wallace of Timbys (www.dipstrip.com).

He did a really good job and this will make my sanding job a lot easier. They really know how to strip wood and a lot about various types. The floorboards are definitely Philippine Mahogany.

We also talked about what to use for the refinishing. I said that I was concerned about the wear and tear and abrasion that the floorboard take. I mentioned that I was thinking about using a Varathane. Tim agreed with this but said to use an 'Outdoor' Varathane and recommended applying three coats.

I just checked the RustOleum web site and it looks like the product below should meet the requirements for the floorboards.

PREMIUM SPAR URETHANE. Varathane Premium Spar Urethane provides maximum UV protection to guard against sun damage. Apply to outdoor wood projects and watch rich golden hues deepen over time. Expands and contracts with weather conditions.

So I think I will be giving this a try.

[kokko]

I used West Marine WoodPro and got good results. But, the product is overpriced and you have to pay for "hazardous shipping". I have followed the tests in Practical Sailor and they give high marks to Ace Hardware Spar Urethane. Cheap, good.

[ctenidae]

We used spar varathane. Held up one season, we'll see how it goes. We put it on thick, almost like dipping it, sincce we wanted to make sure it got well sealed up.

It was a bit slippery at first, but seemed to get better once it had a little scuff to it.

[GreenLake]

Usually, with any varnish, applying several thin coats is better than one thick one. However, for polyurethane there seem to be three kinds, a water based one, a waterbased one with catalyst, and a solvent (oil?) based one.

I've used the solvent based kind only indoors. I didn't like the way it applied, too thick, but it's held up under heavy use (but out of the weather).

Outdoors, on the boat, I've used the waterbased kind with lots of layers. It worked OK on dry applications (like the tiller, which gets taken indoors in the winter), but eventually failed even there - always due to cracking.

Once it cracks, you can't really do a "touch up" job, because you can't get the stuff to flow into the crack.

Using an epoxy base layer, which builds very thick in three "thin" coats, the PU (with catalyst) has lasted two seasons and a winter storage w/o any appreciable signs of wear. It's currently in the second storage season, so soon I'll be able to know if this method is really better for the long term.

[aswanlake]

This may be a rookie question, but I'm new to sailing and I've recently acquired a '68 DS1. I need to re-finish the floorboards this year. Do you disassemble the floorboards before sanding them down?

I think I will be going the epoxy base layers with varnish over the top. The coamings are also pretty worn and have some cracks. Can I finish them the same way? Will the epoxy work to fix the cracks?

Thanks
Aaron

[kokko]

I disassembled mine before refinishing. Label each board!

[Baysailer]

I didn't disassemble mine when I refinished but I didn't use epoxy. Just epiphanies and its holding up well.

[GreenLake]

I refinished once without disassembly. Worked OK, but the varnish did not hold up well.

Now in the process of reassembly after sealing in epoxy. I've made good and not so good experiences using epoxy sealed wood. Or make that, some very good experiences.

Problem is when the epoxy gets breached moisture can be wicked in that then has not way back out. On the thwarts, epoxy plus varnish has worked like a charm. On the coamings, the result has been a bit more mixed. (Some small defects, some peeling off of varnish). On a piece of wood I use as mast support, the result has been more iffy (I think that one ended up waterlogged in one corner).

I'm bound to finish what I started with the floorboards. Definitely found that disassembly was tricky (ridged nails are hard to remove even if they no longer hold the parts together all that tightly). Reassembly with sealing each screw hole is a trying exercise (120+ screws).

As these inevitably end up submerged in water, my thinking is I might have been better off with a permeable oil coating. That one requires frequent touch ups, but little prep for each of them. When epoxy gets a defect, if the part is waterlogged, you need to remove the coating to let it dry out; and even if it doesn't, touchup is a multistep process.

However, if you do disassemble, then, yes, label the parts. I think for the long slats I may have just made sure that I kept the sets from getting mixed up. The pieces will only fit in some logical arrangement. For the cross members, I did end up labeling each piece.

[aswanlake]

Thanks everyone!

Greenlake, can you use a permeable oil finish on the mahogany floorboards? What brand would that be? I was under the impression that was only for teak.