Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:20 pm

I use a Ronstan55 on the DS and am very happy with the automatic - we have enough light air days where having the sheet run free with no load helps. I have a 75mm block on another boat and that one works OK as well, just had a scare last night when something jammed and the sheet would not release.

I don't have ratchets for my jib - but they are on my wishlist.

I also don't bother to change the setting (whether auto or on, depending on which of the two blocks it is). I simply don't want to have to remember another setting. I have managed to string the mainsheet the wrong way through the ratchet - that's amusing if you discover on the water that you can't tighten the main...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby curifin » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:35 pm

Excellent advice. Thanks. I keep the mainsheet in hand and uncleated. In my case my crew was a bit slow getting over and I could not get to the jib sheet sooooo... Double ditto on experience being better than a mast float :). Still though it looks easy to put on and take off so I think I'll give it a whirl. I need to practice keeping her flat..... It is harder with just me. I hike out but based on what y'all are saying need to do so sooner and further to maintain weight advantage.

I have a cam cleat mid boom sheet block... I don't have too much trouble kicking it out but as I understand it the ratchet block basically let's you keep the sheet uncleated all the time?
1970 DS1 "Denial"
1993 Beneteau First 210 "Dory"
curifin
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:49 pm

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:25 pm

I find that I cleat going downwind, to keep the boom a fraction off the stay. There's nothing gained by holding the sheet in your hand in those conditions anyway.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:56 pm

Yeah, if you watch that video carefully you can see that they are playing the sheets constantly. Being able to do that INSTANTLY is key. I had that mid-boom stock set up when I purchased my boat. In my opinion that was a capsize waiting to happen. After a couple of close calls I got rid of that thing. Everything is happening really quick in those conditions and there just isn't time to look down (losing focus on everything else) and kick the stupid sheet down. Besides that, this is when you need to be hiking harder not leaning in to kick the sheet. If you're in the hiking straps where you should be, you're a relatively long way from being able to kick the sheet.

Yes, the ratchet block makes it easily possible to hold the sheet in extreme conditions without cleating. It's not totally painless, your hands will be sore the next day, but in a good way. Your abs will be sore, as well. However, you won't care because you will have had so much fun.
Last edited by K.C. Walker on Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
K.C. Walker
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: North Stonington, Connecticut

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:06 pm

I have a setup where the sheet comes free by being pulled up. The angle is such that I can do that from a distance. Same for the jib. For the jib I have difficulty in cleating it, but that's another story.

The video is for a reach, my comment was for dead downwind, where you can't let the sheet out any more or the boom hits the stay. That's when I use the cleat (in all conditions). In light conditions (and steady) I may cleat both jib and sheet (still held in hand or lap) and enjoy myself - even relying on the tiller-bungee. In heavy conditions I still react too much with the sail and not fast enough in shifting weight - lots of room to improve.

In really heavy conditions I try to have heavy crew. My first race was memorable for the high winds (relative to the norm here, and definitely relative to my personal experience/skill). Had very solid crew and we ended up not even sitting out... (at least I'm positive he didn't) which means we dumped too much main, but for a beginner's attempt to navigate an unfamiliar situation (heavy traffic in heavy winds) you can't have everything...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby Aaron Moore » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:44 am

In response to Sean, I have not tested it, accidentally or on purpose, but may roll it over when I put it in the water in a couple of weeks to see what happens. If so, I'll report on the results. For my situation, where I'm almost always singlehanding and just sailing for fun, I think avoiding turtling is more important than maximizing performance. And since my mast is hinged, it would be easy to remove to float if need be. I've not noticed any negative effects, but honestly have not paid that much attention to it. I have not used a windvane on this boat in the past, but I bought one this spring and plan on fabricating a bracket to extend forward from the side of the mast above the jib for mounting the vane. I think the Baby Bob cost about $120. The body of water is Lake St. George in Liberty, Maine.

--Aaron
Aaron Moore
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:34 pm
Location: Acton, Massachusetts

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby curifin » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:42 pm

Can someone point me to some pics of how the main ratchet block setup looks rigged? Does it change the mid boom sheeting?

@Mike, so you have your boom vang to the centerboard?
1970 DS1 "Denial"
1993 Beneteau First 210 "Dory"
curifin
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:49 pm

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:30 am

Below is a photo of my mainsheet block on a swivel base (it looks like the photo is too big so click on it to get the entire view), below that is Mike's set up on BUBBA. The swivel cleat to the right and forward on the centerboard trunk is for the vang lead. My set up is inspired with Mike's help. If you don't already know, Mike is the current DaySailer national champion. He's also a national contender in the Thistle class and was the president of that class a couple of years ago. Just saying, we're getting advice from a very reputable source.

Yes, I changed from mid-boom sheeting to a bridal on the rear deck that attaches 18 inches forward of the end of the boom. With a 2:1 block set up in the back this gives me approximately a 2:1 total mechanical advantage. Your 3:1 center boom gives you 1.5:1 total mechanical advantage. Mike uses a split tail sheet that leads up to a block at the end of the boom and forward to a block directly above the ratchet block, so his would be 1.5:1, as well. The 1.5:1 is faster reacting but a little harder on the hands.

I'm not sure how many other people have followed Mike with the split tail set up. He's been very successful racing, so I wouldn't doubt that other people have copied his set up. Again, in that video you can see that his reaction time is so quick that it doesn't even look gusty. However, they canceled racing at a big regatta because it was too gusty. That is extreme! Everyone else went in. Only the top racers in the class were out there having fun. Though that's just a short video, for me, I find it very instructive.

For me, big air days are for reaching! That's where the fun is. For me, there's no pointing and no close hauled, and definitely no running, and as said before, no jibing. I always want to be able to relieve pressure if need be with the mainsheet. With the boat up on a plane, the apparent wind is pretty far forward so you can sail amazingly deep with the boom pretty far in, so there's still room to relieve pressure. It's the upwind slog that's cold and very wet that is the price one has to pay on these days, so I always do that first. Or, just go out and beam reach for the most part.
Image
Image
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
K.C. Walker
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: North Stonington, Connecticut

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby Mike Gillum » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:12 pm

#2772 came with a mid-boom traveler and after fighting with it and scraping my shins for a couple of races it was history!
I have sailing friends who have raced Snipes for decades and since the Snipe has a similar sized white sail plan to the DS it made sense to copy what has been proven.
In regards to the Split Tail Mainsheet its been a slow evolution in the NorCal DS Fleet but Steve Lowry #307 was the first to follow me and switch over, then Craig Lee #316, then Dave Keran #13150 with a couple of others removing several parts from their mainsheet systems as many converted to the "McLaughlin" style adjustable "traveler bridle" with either a 2:1 or 3:1 at the aft end in the '80's.
With a pair of ratchet blocks on the Mainsheet coupled with an easily adjustable 20:1 Boomvang on a 360 Cleat right next to the Mainsheet Base allows me to quickly and easily ease or sheet the Main with little actual Mainsheet in the bottom of #2772 making my workspace area a little safer while also self-centering the boom when I'm tacking taking a lot of thought out of whether my Main is properly trimmed.
The 20:1 Boomvang controls the boom height (up and down) while the Mainsheet controls the lateral (in and out) movement of the Main and after wrestling with the Thistle Main for three plus decades the DS Main is rather tame.
Less time looking inside the boat means more time looking outside the boat which is considerable faster!
Mike Gillum
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:28 pm
Location: Loomis, California

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby Windnsails » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:36 pm

All the posts about self rescue and more importantly, how to avoid the need has been very helpful.

I finally took my new-to-me '87 DSIII out yesterday for the very first time with my son in 7-8 kts wind on a choppy lake. (Powerboats were everywhere.)

He was very concerned about going over. I held the main sheet continually due to caution as I get used to this boat. For those that don't know, I have been a big boat racer for years and always had a weighted keel under me.

So at one point, I described to him that I was going release the main sheet and since he was driving, I told him to just keep heading the same course, and I told him what would happen. What a hoot! He freaked out at the abrupt change in heel and put the tiller to leeward. Since the jib was still up, we had some excitement about nearly backwinding the jib, but with some urgent coaching from dad he got it fixed.

So when I read about the racheting blocks replacing the stock fairlead and clam cleat mounted on the adjustable jib car, I became interested in how this was done. Do you have the parts numbers for accomplishing this without replacing the stock track? I read on other threads that if you remove the jib car track, the backing plates fall off and you have to cut access ports to re-attach them. I don't want to do that so I am hoping for some info on replacement cars (model numbers if possible) that can accept the rachet blocks.
- Jim
Windnsails
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:51 pm
Location: Greater Seattle, WA area

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:09 am

I replaced my jib fairleads with ratchet blocks, but on an DS1, where there's no difficulty in changing tracks. My stock tracks failed (broke) during the maiden voyage and I used that occasion to upgrade to Harken's small boat track. Their cars had a U loop that was removable from the back, making the changeover straightforward.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby K.C. Walker » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:37 am

I have a DS1 with original tracks. I bought a car from Duckworks that works great http://www.duckworksbbs.com/hardware/ri ... /index.htm .
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
K.C. Walker
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:50 pm
Location: North Stonington, Connecticut

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:59 am

Those cars look like you cannot remove the strap, limiting you a bit in what blocks you can attach. However, nowadays many blocks come with soft straps that may allow attachment to a fixed strap without adding a shackle. If a shackle is unavoidable, but would result in an incorrect orientation, there are metal shackles that are twisted 90°.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6169
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Self Rescue of Day Sailer

Postby talbot » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:51 am

If you use swivel blocks, shackle orientation shouldn't be a problem. Ronstan and Harken both make them. I use Harken 2636 40mm swivel ratchets.

The plywood backing plates on DS II's are fiberglassed in place. The can't fall off when you unscrew the tracks. Wish they would, 'cus they rot out. Not sure about DS III's. But if you are concered, put in a temporary small screw to hold the backing plate while you take off the old track. Don't be shy about installing inspection ports if you need to get inside the hull. All sorts of advantages. Inspection. Repair. Augmentation (e.g., oarlocks). And you can get them with these neat bags that give you waterproof storage for valuables.

Question: Don't DS III sheets go direct from the cam cleat fairleads on the cockpit coaming to the crew's hands? In which case, it seems to me the line wouldn't really wrap around the ratchet. On the DS I and DS II, the jib sheets make a ~90-degree bend around the turning blocks on the jib cars and then go to swivel cams on the centerboard trunk. I know a lot of people have converted to DS-III style sheeting (D&R sells a kit for the modification). But I have held off--despite urging from my crew--because I can barely hang on to the sheet now, and I don't see how my ratchets would engage if the cams were mounted in line with them on the coaming. I can't dispense with the cams. With my arthritic hands, I could not longer sail the boat. I would have to win the lottery, buy a large yacht, and join a different forum that discusses the fine points of lubricating $8,000 winches.
talbot
 
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Previous

Return to Seamanship and boat handling

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron