Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Regarding the DS3 only. Note that the DS3 is not a class-legal Day Sailer.

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Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Postby WinniDS3 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:38 pm

I have had my Daysailer 3 for almost a month and have not gotten out for a sail. I thought I would get out today but I could not get the rudder blade to stay down. There is a line coming from the rudder up to the tiller where there is a clam cleat on the underside of the tiller. If I pull on the line the rudder starts to go down but then swivels back up. I believe that the person I bought the boat from took the rudder apart to varnish it but possibly assembled it wrong. Any help on how to run the line up through the spacers and to the tiller would be appreciated. I know the DS3 is supposed to be similar to the DS1 and 2 but I have not been able to find any diagrams in those forums. Does anyone know if the clam cleat belongs on top of the tiller or underneath. I would really like to get out at least once before the season ends. Thank you, Bob
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Re: Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Postby jalmeida51 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:50 pm

Bob, My rudder down haul for my Daysailer 1 built by Rebel 1981 is routed this way. It is attached thru a hole in the leading edge of the rudder. It travels up thru the pintles, Thru a hole drilled in the tiller. I have a auto release v cleat on top of the tiller. The rudder is held down by securing the downhaul thru the v cleat. I use this type of auto release cleat to prevent damaging the rudder or the hardware. If I run aground. You also could just tightened the bolt that holds the blade to the rudder head. But this would be a pain if you wanted the rudder blade in the up position. Like beaching the boat. John
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Re: Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Postby WinniDS3 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:12 am

Thank you for responding to this John. Reading through the forums I wasn't sure if the line from the rudder was an uphaul or a downhaul. Some had said that the line is an uphaul and that friction alone should hold down the rudder. I have read other posts that that mention both a downhaul and uphaul for the rudder similar to the centerboard. I do like the idea of an auto release cleat. I previously owned a Sunfish and have taken lessons on a Flying Scot and an Ensign. The Daysailer 3 rigging has me confused. It is the first sailboat I have seen that has the main sheet mid boom with no traveler or boom vang. For now I am planning on sailing in very light wind so I am hoping it wont be a problem.
Again I really appreciate your input.
Bob
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Re: Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Postby GreenLake » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:19 pm

The Daysailer 3 rigging has me confused. It is the first sailboat I have seen that has the main sheet mid boom with no traveler or boom vang. For now I am planning on sailing in very light wind so I am hoping it wont be a problem.

You don't have to stick to the factory rigging for a DaySailer.

One thing you might want to do is rig your own vang. It's not that difficult and will improve your ability to handle gusts. Another thing you might want to do is add (or have a sailmaker add) a set of reef points to your main, and then rig a reef hook and reef line for a jiffy reef. That would improve your ability to deal with sustained winds that are too high for the full sail.

About your original question:
Does anyone know if the clam cleat belongs on top of the tiller or underneath.

Whether a line is an uphaul or downhaul for a rudder is decided by whether it pulls up on the leading or trailing edge of the rudder, not whether the cleat is on top or underneath the tiller. There has to be a way for the pull to turn 90 degrees from up to forward; sometimes that's done with a cheek block on the rudder head, sometimes the line goes around a pin or through a hole. Without pictures, it would be difficult to advise in your specific case.

I have so far not fitted either one of these lines and am relying on friction (works moderately well below planing speeds). The main reason for me is that I want to be able to raise the tiller, if necessary, in case something or somebody is in the way when I have to make a sharp turn. There are clever ways of rigging a downhaul so it does not pull down the tiller, but most systems I've seen are not clever that way.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Postby WinniDS3 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:13 pm

I tightened the pivot nut as tight as I could get it and the rudder still wouldn't stay down. It is freshly varnished and very slippery. I have determined that it is a downhaul line and I have it cleated to hold the rudder in the down position. I will be replacing the cleat with an auto release cleat soon. there does not appear to be a hole for an uphaul but if I find that I need one it shouldn't be too hard to set one up. I should have looked a little harder before posting. GreenLake had quite a bit of information on rudder setup in another post on the Daysailer 3 section. I am new to the Daysailer as well as the forum and I am sure I will learn quite a bit from it. I look forward to the day that I can assist others in the same way. Your help has been greatly appreciated.
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Re: Daysailer 3 rudder confusion

Postby GreenLake » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:45 pm

Glad you worked it out. Since you have a downhaul rigged, no need to worry about the pivot bolt (as long as it doesn't come undone on you while under way).

The reason you'd need an uphaul would be if you routinely beached your boat and needed to raise the rudder to keep it from dragging (or likewise, if you deliberately entered shallow water and wanted to protect the rudder). I beach my boat about once or twice every other year and ground contact would be unanticipated at other times so I never bothered with an uphaul.

The auto-release is really important as otherwise ground contact could lead to bad damage.

A final note: other than differences in hull shape, the DSIII isn't all that different from the other models. You should be able to apply much of what you read here to your boat, even if it is posted in a DS1 or DSII section. (Many discussions in these sections aren't necessarily about features specific to each of these models).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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