New Guy with a Centerboard question

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New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby Wino10542 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:25 pm

Hi all...I picked up my DSII about a month ago and have been lurking around reading as much as I can. So...after a "shakedown" cruise that didn't go nearly as well as I would have liked (the bunks(BOTH!!) ripped off the trailer upon launching to start..so that should give you an idea how things started) I have a question. The CB got stuck..I couldn't lower or raise it and after getting the boat home and up on blocks I could see that the U/H cable got wedged between the CB and trunk just like I have read it is prone to doing without that shock cord, which snapped, to keep tension on the cable. I dropped the CB, straightened and cleaned things up and put it all back together. I can raise it easily by pushing the CB up from underneath, but when I try to raise it using the U/L I find it very hard to raise. So...here's the question: Will it be easier to raise it once the boat is in the water?. I'm hoping the water makes the CB a little more buoyant and easier to raise. If this isn't the case I'm open to any suggestion/opinion as to what the problem may be or what I should do.

Thanks,
Evan
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:08 pm

Welcome to the forum!

Maiden voyages are apt to have an unanticipated moment or two, but it sounds like you've used up more than your quota :) Glad you and your boat made it back sound and safe and you're still interested in making this go.

Can you move your CB by hand from underneath more easily than with the UH? If so, that would mean you might have more friction in the UH line than you should. A CB is supposed to not weigh more than 25lbs. If it's almost horizontal (and no friction in the pivot, or against the CB hull) it should require a push of around half that to move it up. If it's noticeably more, that would be a clue. If you can extend it all the way down, try pushing it back. Any resistance in that position would be contribution from friction.

Contribution from weight should increase as you raise the CB. Is that what you observe? Buoyancy will take some of the load off, but I haven't sailed a DSII often enough to have a first hand feel for that.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby jimfrens » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:41 am

Does your uphaul mechanism use a set of blocks (pulleys) at the bottom of the mast tube, or is it a direct 1:1 pull? My 84 has the blocks which give a 2:1 advantage for lifting.
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby Wino10542 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:14 am

Hi all.....I do have a pulley setup on the CB, but I don't know what ratio it makes it. I'll have to mess around with the CB some more, but there doesn't appear to be any friction when I raise the CB by hand from underneath and there is a slight amount of side to side movement of the CB so I don't think there's an issue of friction between the CB and the trunk.
On a different note, when I dropped the CB the plastic wedges slid right out. There was no sign of any adhesive or caulking that I have read other people have applied or found on them. Should there be something on these wedges?

Thanks

IMG_3192.jpg
IMG_3192.jpg (88.63 KiB) Viewed 677 times
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby GleamB » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:03 pm

I have the very same issue with my CB. I, also, have a 1984 Daysailer ll, and neither of the control lines moves the CB. I have it on a trailer now, getting ready to store it for the winter. I will try and rework the CB next spring, and will try and get the boat up on sawhorses to work on it. I have read many past posts, and believe that I may have to unscrew the metal pivot point under the boat, in order to reroute the lines. I am the third ( ?? ) owner of the boat, I have unused blocks near the base of the mast, along with two grommets that go into the cuddy near the trunk. I think that these blocks were used to raise and lower the CB. The previous owner did not use the blocks. I have not seen any pictures that show how to utilize the blocks properly. Any help with this is appreciated.

ON ANOTHER NOTE: This is the second time I have loaded my boat on a trailer for storage. When I lowered the mast, I have broken a spreader, EACH TIME!!!
Aside from feeling like a dummy, I am not happy about the money I am burning up, doing this. I am obviously doing something VERY WRONG!! What is the proper procedure when stepping down the mast?? Once I have it lowered, and try to move it forward to the trailer support, I get the spreader " caught " on something and snap it. I NEED HELP. Thanks.
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:35 am

@GleamB: for a reply to your "NOTE" see: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6136
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby jimfrens » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:23 pm

I got my CB reinstalled with new cable. Tomorrow I'll get a photo of the uphaul rigging and post it here.
Jim
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby hsubman » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:31 am

I too have a '84 DSII and had great difficulty raising the cb completely up into the trunk until I invested in a good pair of sailing gloves. The uphaul would always slip in my grip the last few inches and almost cut into my hands. The sailing gloves eliminated that problem and I could raise the cb completely. It requires a considerate amount of pull on that uphaul. My advice is to get you a good pair of leather sailing gloves. My pair have the exposed finger tips. hth John
John
'83 DSII, 12279, MARY RUTH
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby jimfrens » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:19 pm

uphaul1.JPG
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photos of my uphaul rigging:
Last edited by jimfrens on Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:04 pm

Jim,
to post a photo, it won't work to give the file name on your local C:\ drive.

You can edit your post (or write a new one) and on that page, where you are typing the new post there's an "upload attachment" tab below the text field.

You can upload a photo and then click "place inline". That method works quite well, but you may need to resize the image a bit (the forum doesn't have automatic resizing like the social media platforms do).

If you need more info, look into the the "How to use the forum" part of the forum, there's a post on how to post images that goes into this in some greater detail. So far, most everyone has managed to figure this out.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby Nephroid » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:41 pm

Congrats on your purchase! I just bought my '72 DSII a couple months ago. Just did my first "shakedown" cruise last weekend. Write-up forthcoming but I too had some issues w/ my CB.

In my case, my downhaul was "off track" and got jammed between the CB and the trunk, locking them both in place. Ultimately I decided to take a swim and manually pulled the CB down from underneath. Once down I was able to pull the board down and didn't have any issues the rest of the day. Despite this after getting her back on the trailer I looked underneath and once again the downhaul seemed jammed against the trunk. Curious to see what happens the next time I go out.

I got the below pages courtesy of Rudy at D&R Marine. I mentioned the issue when I was ordering new standing and running rigging.

Not sure if yours is configured the same way but thought I would share in case they're helpful.

The attachment Oday CB Pg1.png is no longer available


Oday CB Pg1.png
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Oday CB Pg 2.png
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Attachments
Oday CB Pg 3.png
Oday CB Pg 3.png (109.16 KiB) Viewed 591 times
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby jimfrens » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:46 am

uphaul3.JPG
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uphaul2.JPG
uphaul2.JPG (88.55 KiB) Viewed 562 times



more photos of uphaul rig:
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby hsubman » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:57 am

Jim, I see your uphaul has an added block to double the advantage. The standard set-up is more or less just a turning block with a shock cord attached to keep tension on the uphaul cable. I like your set-up and going to have to try it. Thanks for posting the picture! JOHN
John
'83 DSII, 12279, MARY RUTH
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby badgley » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:24 am

Hi Evan, did you relaunch yet? I'm a little late to the thread, but I just wanted to mention a couple things that I didn't see addressed (though I may have skimmed too quickly).

1. I have the same issue with my CB after repairing a separated downhaul. It was, for me, definitely MUCH harder to lift it out of the water than it is in the water using the uphaul line. So if you haven't tried it yet, then I suspect you will see the same. Again, assuming there is not much friction on your CB if you lift it by hand from underneath. It should definitely feel free and easy to move in that respect.

2. I think you might see an improvement if you get some less stretchy rope - nothing crazy like amsteel but at least some new double braid. It's not a long line so shouldn't cost much. That old 3-strand probably has a lot of stretch that you are having to load up each time you want to raise the board. I bet new rope would feel much more solid and efficient.

3. I love my boat, but this is, far and away, the thing I hate most about it. With all due respect to people who know much more about boats than I do... I think this CB design is terrible. I cannot really get my CB all the way into the trunk. The leverage on it, once it's close to up, is just stupidly inefficient (same for the down haul in almost any position...). It usually has a couple inches of the forward edge hanging out of the hull after I pull on it. Beyond that, I feel like I'm pulling harder than is smart for 40 year old hardware, fiberglass, and backing blocks. I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. First, it leaves a little 'skeg' for docking and maneuvering, and who knows - maybe even sailing downwind. Although that might matter to races, of which I am not one. Two, the way I have my trailer, the board is supported along the whole length, so the roller at the end just lifts the board as it goes up and then the bunk holds it in place. I actually like this because I know it is supported from below and the uphaul is not stressed under load when on the trailer.

HOWEVER, this is important. Do not put your boat on the trailer with the CB dangling out if it is not supported! It will act like a barb in that it will easily pull up over any rollers, bars, etc. that it may contact but then, if it is too low, could snag sliding in the other direction when trying to launch the boat. I've had to get in the water under my boat once at the ramp and learned that less the hard way. The same can happen if the boat shifts sideways during launch or retrieval, e.g. in shallow water.

Finally, regarding some kind of sealant - mine did have it when I pulled the wedge blocks out. I suspect yours either completely degraded or someone else scraped it out previously. I didn't see a need for it from a watertight perspective, but I did find a little bit of bedding compound (dolfinite) handy to hold them in place while reassembling. Once put back together they'll do their job via gravity either way, but it feels a little unfinished to leave them rattling around loosely in there.
Brian Badgley
1982 DS II #10911 EGRETTA
Blacksburg, VA, USA
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Re: New Guy with a Centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:15 am

I wouldn't think of "Amsteel" as "crazy". It's a good replacement for wire cable for example. It's super easy to splice (even though you'll need to learn something new, that is Brummel splices, they are in fact much easier to execute). The one place Amsteel doesn't belong is where you need friction for handling or cleating. In those cases, you can either get some rope that has a Dyneema core with a good cover or splice a double-braid tail onto your Amsteel. The former often can't be spliced, the latter requires an interesting hybrid splice - fun for those of us that like to play with stuff like that. But there are many applications where you need neither (for example, I replaced the wire cable on my trailer winch with Amsteel many years ago and for that all I needed was the splice for the shackle at the end).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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