Woodie - DS1 project

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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:38 pm

The hull may be symmetrical, but the inside liner on the old DS1's aren't. I got a little frustrated measuring, and of course, it is a boat so there aren't any right angles and lots of curves. I'm going to have to do this by eye

I milled up some red cedar to for the seat cleats and am plan to work my way aft starting with the thwarts. The recycled floorboards are quite thin so the starting piece is a nice piece of teak to act as a bullnose. I'm leaving room in front of the seats for a place to stand and to put your feet if the crew wants to sit facing forward. We get enough strange bruises so the first rule is to avoid sharp edges. Then the first piece of recycled floorboards.

Image

Yes, the wood is narrow so I'm going to cut to size and then join. I'm not sure how to join long thin old twisted pieces of floorboards but no doubt it will come to me. I was going to build the support frame first ..... I'm going to have to wing it and build the seats then support it.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:08 am

lemsteraak wrote:The hull may be symmetrical, ....


Make that "intended to be". :)

That's why people use cardboard (or plywood) templates so much when working on boats.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:22 am

lemsteraak wrote:Yes, the wood is narrow so I'm going to cut to size and then join. I'm not sure how to join long thin old twisted pieces of floorboards but no doubt it will come to me. I was going to build the support frame first ..... I'm going to have to wing it and build the seats then support it.


Curious as to what you settle on for joining these?

Easiest would be to duplicate the old floor boards, that is separate strips with cross members. A few cross members at locations between the planned supports would allow you to keep them all together while attaching the whole seat to the supports.

Don't think any attempt to glue the strips into a single plank will work if the strips are "twisted", but if there's a small gap between strips a slight amount of warp can be accommodated.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:17 pm

I'm planning to make the seats a little generous. I've been toying with the idea of expanding the concept to make Woodie a gentlemen's racer to take on the Nationals in two years, but also a camp cruiser. The problem with a camp cruiser is just where to sleep. The standard for an offshore sailboat bunk is to make the head area 22" and the foot 12" so I'm going to expand the benches to 15 1/2 inches tapering to 11 1/2 inches. This doesn't take into account the thwart area which is wider. Should be a moderately comfortable area to take a nap or an overnight in a pinch.
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Here are the boards laid out, untrimmed to get an idea of the layout

Image

The proposed cockpit layout and I'm also thinking of having a bit of a wood cap on the centerboard trunk

Image

The recycled floorboards are a bit on the thin side at a little under 1/2 inch so I have to build a subframe. The edge of the seats will have the thicker teak board as a bullnose. It is standing proud now but will be flush when cut to size. The subframe will be paneled with a thin red cedar similar to the cuddy bulkhead to create buoyancy tanks below the seats. Now on to the subframe .....
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:58 pm

Instead of making the seats wider (or in addition to it) you might think about an "infill".

The downside of making the seats wider is of course that it affects the space you can put your legs. Whether the original dimensions represent an optimum I'll leave as an open question, but at some point you'll run into a limit. I'm sure you tested that.

Now, there have been several people here who built boards that can be used to fill in the gap between seat and centerboard for a very nice sleeping platform. Any board, of course, is potentially awkward to store on a boat. However, it turns out, that if you dimension the length so it fits across the boat before the transom, it's quite out of the way there (and you can slide it forward a bit and suddenly you have a space where you can sit facing forward (or almost forward).

I've sailed on a boat like that and while we camped on land, that secondary use of this board was highly welcome after a few long days on the water. Add a cushion and you also further elevate your seating position: again something that works well on long stretches (particularly downwind ones -- which would fit your plan of doing gentlemanly sailing :) )
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:11 am

Recycling floorboards maybe wasn't the best idea ... a lot of work. Had to drill out all the old fasteners and then put in "inlays". I also didn't take into account how much twist and bow there was in the planks. Fortunately the wood was in great shape, stable and aged maybe 50 years so I don't have to worry about splitting too much.

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Here is part of the rig to flatten the boards while the glue sets, you can't have too many clamps ....

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I glued a thicker teak bullnose around the edges that I'll round nicely so that when you land on the edge it doesn't leave so much of a mark.

Next step, I would like to build a simple reinforcing frame and create buoyancy tanks under the seats. This time I'm not going to use recycled floorboards. Maybe I'll work on the foils for awhile.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:28 am

Do you have one of those planing/milling contraptions that you can send a board through and would that have made a difference?
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:49 pm

Thickness / Planer - good for production work. They do not take out twists or warps well. This work is more detailed and better done the old way with a hand plane. I used a little block plane to get the high spots out. It will have a made by hand look, it's OK, I'm just winging it, learning. The wood is thin and I'm going to back it up with an inner layer of fiberglass/epoxy to reinforce. I'm also thinking of some inner splines after the glass to stiffen the structure, These will be light seats so I can afford to put in stuff like buoyancy tanks and not be overweight.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:37 pm

Thickness planer; that's what I meant. I can see how a warped board would just "warp" through.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby Fly4rfun » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:59 pm

Lemsteraak,

I love what you are doing with your DS1. I am a Oregon Boy, born and raised in northeastern Oregon, Wallowa county (Wallowa) lived in McMinnville for 20 years until 2011.

I now reside in WV. just got a UNK year DS1, 50.00 for boat and trailer. my winter project, no sails with it, so am looking to get some hopefully used ones. one note of caution, is do not use to much epoxy without some cloth or matt embedded, as thereis no strength in the epoxy and will crack with stress. but do like the direction your going, gives me Ideas for mine.

Garry
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:58 pm

Hi Garry, your point about unsupported epoxy is well taken. I did find something interesting, and set me off my schedule, of course. I want to make the seats into buoyancy chambers so I coated. Tanks always leak so I thought the wood should be protected so I sealed the seat bottoms with epoxy and cloth. I wasn't sure if the seat tops should be sealed but when I was showing the boat to a friend I notices the seats developed a very nice arc. They had bowed about a half inch because the wood had swelled but the epoxy and fabric didn't. It is remarkable how much strength is in the fabric.

I don't recommend doing what I have done to Woodie because time working on a boat is time not sailing. This has been an experiment because I wanted to learn some tricky woodworking techniques. I have another Daysailer I use for sailing and racing so I can afford to take my time on Woodie
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:33 pm

In epoxy coating/sealing it's best to do all six sides of every piece. (And inside any holes for fasteners). That way you stop the moisture cycling and any varnish or paint will last that much longer. For that purpose, it's not necessary to add a glass sheath - that's something you do to add scratch resistance where you need it (or, if called for, strength). The thing to watch out for, if you go that route is to never give moisture any chance to wick in (you'll never get it out of a sealed piece of wood) and to never allow the epoxy to get damaged by UV.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby lemsteraak » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:50 am

The snow has melted so it is time to get back to Woodie. Time to build a rudder, a racing rudder, something pretty. The newer rudders are rather industrial, I like the look of the old ODay ones but a wood rudder head would be pretty clunky too. I'm merging the two. So, here is a mock up.

Image

The wood, there has to be some wood, is a nice chunk of Walnut, it will finish dark. Once I finish with the aluminum cheeks I'll have them anodized black. It is surprising how cheap that is, way less than painting. The pintles will be inlaid in the Walnut under the alloy cheeks and the holes in the aluminum are for copper rivets. I might give it a copper or bronze strap or two to give it a sort of steampunk look.

I still have a little shaping to do with the blade and I don't want to drill the pivot hole in it yet until I can measure it on the boat to determine the maximum depth I can get the rudder to go.

Image

I've left the wood slightly long so I can cut it back once I get the measurements. I want the rudder to be able to hinge slightly forward. A racing trick, it is supposed to be a tad more efficient and will balance out a weather helm a bit.
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby tomodda » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:02 pm

Looking good! I actually HAVE an original rudder + cheeks (rudder head), it is amazingly heavy and clunky. I replaced them ASAP with a later set (standard fiberglass). Will try and take a picture this weekend of the old one, just for a laugh.

As for aesthetics, I try to keep my boat looking reasonable for the 1950's (lots of Tufnol). "AtomPunk", if you will. Still, one future project is to ditch my heavy ruder cheeks and go with aluminum, thanks for the tip on anodizing.

Tom
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Re: Woodie - DS1 project

Postby GreenLake » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:38 pm

The plywood rudder I built (with plywood head) is lighter than the original. It just about has neutral buoyancy with the blade immersed and tiller and head attached. At that point I stopped worrying about weight.

Painted, mine looks like the original. But a steampunk look might be a nice touch!

I made sure to trim some of the cheeks below the pivot, as anything below the pivot is being dragged through the water. Also made sure to extend the shaped leading edge 1-2" higher, as the original has a flat spot at the top, that is also dragged through the water. Details, but anything helps.
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