Year Two of Owning a DS I

[reedd]

Not quite a year ago, in the midst of the covid outbreak, I bought a 1969 DSI, #4184. Naturally, and being a first-time boat owner, I was excited to get it in the water, so I did a couple of quick repairs, cleaned up the floor boards and put her in a slip on the Potomac (I live in Washington, DC). From the PO, I knew the center-board square hole had rounded off and the center board wouldn't go up and down. But the seal also leaked and soon there was water in the boat. The water level stopped rising when it got about 3 inches deep, so I just wet-vacuumed it out each trip to the marina and tried to sail as much as possible. I should mention that my goals here are pretty straightforward: sail as much as my schedule allows to build up skills and experience. I don't mind working on the boat but I'm not a perfectionist and I'm not looking for a pristine restoration. I'll most likely be single-handling about 2/3rds of the time, luring out the wife and friends the rest of the time.

Now coming into my second season, I want to be a little more disciplined about the repairs I need to take, both for safety and seaworthiness, but also to prevent additional damage from occurring. So, I have a bunch of questions about both what I need to do and the sequence I need to do them. Again, the goal is to have the boat work well, so I can learn how to handle her in different conditions and become a proficient sailor and to be safe. Making the boat better for the next owner is probably a good thing too.

She's in a dry slip now and yesterday a couple of friends and I careened her and I was able to get the centerboard out. So here's my first question:

1) I know I need to square up the centerboard hole, but in all honesty it doesn't look that round. Should I both square up the hole *and* buy a new handle? (A handle isn't cheap -- about $150 from D & R marine.)

The starboard side is worse, but there is a metal band within the hole that is keeping the shape, more or less. Here are both sides:





The handle actually looks like it is the culprit, with metal wear that looks like things have been rounded off. Here's a close up:



I'm comfortable with learning some fiberglass repair to put the centerboard into good shape, so I'll probably do that, as well.

My other question is about how much water can actually be coming in through a leaky seal on the CB. This is what I had to wet-dry vacuum out on my weekly trips to the slip:



There were some flaky bits on the floor of the boat, most of which I used gelcoat to repair before putting her in the slip last summer. But it's possible that there are more loose spots.

But does this amount of water look like what a leaky cb seal might produce? It also struck me as odd that it would fill to a point and then stop. But my knowledge of fluid dynamics is pretty limited so maybe once the hole gets at water level the boats buoyancy stops the drip-drip.

I have lots of other questions about replacing the jib cleats (the old tufnol ones don't hold the jib sheet) and what I need to do to the hull before I put her back into the slip for summer, but I will stop here for now. Thanks for any advice.

[GreenLake]

You can shim the CB hole, if there's play. If you can get a bronze (not brass) washer, you might be able to pound that into a shape that fills any space between CB pin and hole. Be sure to maintain the correct angle of handle to board, or it will no longer lock in the upright position (don't ask me how I know ).

[GreenLake]

About your floor. Hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like it's dirty.

The inside should have been painted. If the paint is from 1969, I'd expect it would have flaked in a few places.

If the damage is isolated and you don't feel like a full paint job, you could just apply some (transparent) gel coat paste. I did that for a few spots where my floor boards had worn through the paint and exposed the laminate. The transparent (=neutral) gelcoat paste is often offered in an air curing version, because it's commonly used to repair slight nicks in darker gelcoat where just buffing out the scratch and restoring the surface will do the trick (and the fact that the repair is transparent wouldn't be visible). You do need the air curing version unless you can cover the repair with some air tight material.

Applied on a sport where the paint wore through, it will likely be visible, but if it's in an area where you tend to scuff things, you'd get a a quick and very durable fix. Scuff sand a bit and apply paste with a spatula.

You can of course sand the entire floor and repaint (after repairing any places where you sanded into the laminate with a bit of same gelcoat paste.

Or, you can sand and then apply white premium gelcoat (air curing) that you can tint a bit to your favorite shade of off-white or gray. I've done that to my boat last season. I had several layers of paint in different shades that were all flaking leaving a bit of a mottled look. I sanded best I could, not stressing about places where I couldn't quite get the innermost layer of paint removed fully. (My thought was if it adhered that tenaciously after over 50 years, it would continue to do so. Time will tell if that was optimistic). I then mixed up the gelcoat (air curing!) and applied it with a large spatula (and evened it out a bit with brush). I had tinted it a shade of gray using ordinary "universal" tinting agents. It didn't take very much and appears to not have impacted curing or adhesion.

I worked in sections over several days.

I don't have anything that defines a natural line between floors and side of the hull inside the cuddy, unlike your boat, so I'm not 100% sure how I want to finish things. I went up the sides high enough to cover all damaged spots, but that's probably too high for making a transition. Meaning, I'll likely finish the sides of the hull inside the cuddy sometime during the coming season.

Make sure to buy an extra tube or two of catalyst and to follow instructions on how much to use (slightly over if your temps are marginal). A test piece will ensure you practice your mixing and application and ensure that your actual coat will cure.

The result is very satisfactory to my standards. It's a durable finish, now that I mostly sail w/o my floor boards. I purposefully left it slightly rough, with the idea that it is a floor and not a deck, and because even after sanding the surface I applied it on wasn't perfectly smooth. (It should be possible to get it to be as smooth as a deck (with some practice beforehand on a separate piece until you get the technique), and the layer is thick enough that you could sand it with less risk of sanding through it. Like to take out a drip, or brush make or something like that.)

I know I won't wear through the gelcoat, even if I track some sand or shells into the boat when I beach it. Also, gel-coat is impervious to standing water - despite best efforts, I seem to get standing water that sits in the boat for a few days on occasion.

Now, some people are happy just painting the floors. You could use a bilge paint, that would be water resistant, or any old paint.

Options.

[GreenLake]

You should see it drip from the gasket if it isn't tight. (New gaskets sold by D&R Marine).

If I've gotten things to a drip every other minute, I might simply put a large sponge underneath to catch the water. (Tightening too much makes the CB hard to move, so it's a balancing act -- too loose, the CB won't stay down, so there's that, too).

Except when it's raining or you have spray coming in over the bows, your bilge should be dry.

[GreenLake]

Look in the older threads, much older, I discussed some things you can do to a stock CB to (slightly) improve it. You might have dig back about a decade, probably in "Repairs..." not the DSI section. (Here's some post where I discussed CB repair. But around that time I also created this image and there should be a thread somewhere that discusses it).



Alternatively, you could purchase one that has an actual "airfoil" shape and which would improve your sailing experience (the stock CB isn't all that great).

Or, you could try to build your own (mainly a woodworking exercise, with just a fiberglass skin).

[reedd]

You can shim the CB hole, if there's play. If you can get a bronze (not brass) washer, you might be able to pound that into a shape that fills any space between CB pin and hole. Be sure to maintain the correct angle of handle to board, or it will no longer lock in the upright position (don't ask me how I know ).

Thanks for this. I'm looking more carefully at the square on the handle and it looks like some corrosion has built up, maybe because there is a metal liner inside the square on the cb that's reacting to the bronze handle/pin. I'm thinking I might use a strip from a sheet of this: https://www.riogrande.com/product/Bronz ... oft/134550 to line the inside of the square to eliminate any play. I need to figure out how to re-glass the centerboard anyway, (using your helpful instructions), so why not metal-working as well!

[reedd]

You should see it drip from the gasket if it isn't tight. (New gaskets sold by D&R Marine).

If I've gotten things to a drip every other minute, I might simply put a large sponge underneath to catch the water. (Tightening too much makes the CB hard to move, so it's a balancing act -- too loose, the CB won't stay down, so there's that, too).

Except when it's raining or you have spray coming in over the bows, your bilge should be dry.

Yeah, mine was going drip-drip-drip like a piano metronome. Probably something like 2-3 drips a second. Need to fix that. I'm hoping a new, lubricated seal does it.

[reedd]

About your floor. Hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like it's dirty.

The inside should have been painted. If the paint is from 1969, I'd expect it would have flaked in a few places.

The water is definitely definitely dirty. The boat has an odd color bilge paint -- a kind of putty beige. It's also a thickly coated kind of non-skid covering. It's kind of built up. I will probably go at the flakes with my dremel tool and widen them out and use the gel paste that you recommended last year. I did it for a few spots, but I think I will be more systematic and then paint over it with bilge paint. Either gray or white. The hull is a whole other story, tho. I won't subject you to that story just yet....

[tomodda]

Reedd:

Congrats on your DS1, great boat to own. And easy to maintain. However, GL is right - bilge should be dry, not leaking from the gasket at all. New gasket is the way to go. Fair your centerboard while you're at it.

You mentioned your tufnol cleats, I'm presuming that you mean cam cleats. I have several pairs on my boat, love 'em. I don't know if your problem with the cleat is that they are not closing well or that the teeth are worn. Either way, the fix is to disassemble them. Assuming the internal spring is not broken then a good cleaning and lubing (WD40) should get everything "snapping" again. If the teeth are worn, you can file them back into shape with a simple flat hand file. However, if they are too far gone to be worth the trouble of fixing, and if you want to stay with tufnol, then they are easy enough to find online. R&W Rope carries them on the East Coast, Fisheries Supply on the West, I've dealt with both companies and they are quite good.

GreenLake has converted me to the Gospel of No Cleat Keepers, along with the Epistle of Ratchet Blocks. My jib sheets go to a pair of ratchet blocks on 18' jib tracks and then to my hand. The two ends are tied together, so I can easily find the correct sheet (it's all one!). I do have jib cleats at the centerboard but I only use them in light or steady breeze and/or for quick belays when I need an extra hand. There are no keepers, so I can easily pop the rope down into and out of the cleat, often using my feet and toes. And if things get hairy (sudden gust), I can quickly control everything again in my hand, without getting the sheet hung up in a keeper. And doth endeth the Book of Jib Sheets, I'll get off my soapbox!

If you have serious hull work to do, it's really convenient and relatively easy to flip the hull. It's been written up various times on this forum, I'll just note that haybales are great for holding the boat at a good working height after flipping. Three will do - 1 at the bow, 2 at the stern - and are good for the garden afterwards.

Have you ever sailed down near Kinsale? It's on my go-to list this year. The whole Northern Neck is beautiful and has tons of gunk-holing spots for our shallow-draft boats. Fingers crossed for a better sailing year in 2021!

Tom

[GreenLake]

Nicely put to chapter and verse, Tom.

[reedd]

Reedd:

GreenLake has converted me to the Gospel of No Cleat Keepers, along with the Epistle of Ratchet Blocks. My jib sheets go to a pair of ratchet blocks on 18' jib tracks and then to my hand. The two ends are tied together, so I can easily find the correct sheet (it's all one!). I do have jib cleats at the centerboard but I only use them in light or steady breeze and/or for quick belays when I need an extra hand. There are no keepers, so I can easily pop the rope down into and out of the cleat, often using my feet and toes. And if things get hairy (sudden gust), I can quickly control everything again in my hand, without getting the sheet hung up in a keeper. And doth endeth the Book of Jib Sheets, I'll get off my soapbox!

I’m planning on converting to this faith myself, but I’m wondering which denomination of ratchet blocks will bring me salvation, so to speak. And size? I haven’t yet done a lot of research on jib blocks yet so any brand and model recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I’m thinking of Harken 150 cam cleats on top of the centerboard where the tufnols are mounted now. (Too far gone and tho WD40 got them moving, they just aren’t holding even after complete disassembly.) I’m also going to try the bungee cord tiller tamer GreenLake preaches about, as well.

Have you ever sailed down near Kinsale? It's on my go-to list this year. The whole Northern Neck is beautiful and has tons of gunk-holing spots for our shallow-draft boats. Fingers crossed for a better sailing year in 2021!

Have not yet had the good fortune to get on the water in that part of the Northern Neck. Right now I’m just trying to stay right side up on the Potomac. Definitely hoping this season goes better than last!

Doug

[GreenLake]

I don't know the part number I for the Harken cleats I used in this picture. But whatever the size is just about fits on top of the CB. Note the wedges (not needed if you have wedges molded in, as some DSIIs have).



Ratchet blocks are not all created equal. When I first mounted mine, there was a test in a technical sailing magazine and the brand I picked proved to have double the holding power from the then nearest competitor. It's possible that the competitive gap has been closed in the meantime, but these tests aren't repeated all that often. So, I'll recommend what I used, because I'm still very happy with them for main and jib sheets. (Note brands of jib car and actual block are different, as I modified the cars that came with the track!)



There's a small price to pay for the extra holding power and that is that the blocks tested as being somewhat rougher on the line. I think that's a concern that's probably more important to anyone using them on a cruising sailboat or in a context where you really use these for hundreds of hours a year. I've not detected any negative effects. For the mainsheet, I'm using a rope that looks a bit like it's spun from rag wool. Very grippy, and holds extremely well in the ratchet block, but also runs smoothly. I believe it's a type of construction that's called a soft braid. (See here).

For the iib sheets, I'm still using some ridiculously oversized rope I got as a cut-off for a bargain price at precisely the correct length. A bit too heavy, but works well in cleats and blocks. Probably strong enough to lift boat, trailer and towing vehicle but I can't recommend it, as I don't know brand or composition.

I've mentioned this before, but I run my ratchet blocks in the "auto" setting. If the line is slackened, the ratchet function turns off. Works brilliantly for me. That way, I'll never forget to engage it, but it doesn't get in the way e.g. in low winds.

[jalmeida51]

I replaced my c/b handle and board last September not cheap by any means. The square peg on the handle was badly worn and the square hole on the board was badly elongated. The board also was water soaked. With the handle up, the board would droop 10 inches. After a week water was still dripping out of the board at the square hole. Replaced the board with a new board from D& R which was heavier than original board. Since I don't race I wanted the extra ballast.

When you replace the gasket with a new one, coat both sides with waterproof grease this will prevent leaking.

John

[reedd]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I think I'm going to learn some fiberglassing skills and work on the centerboard and, as I do that, square up the hole. I got a new rubber seal from Rudy at D & R Marine (two in fact -- one as a back up) and will generously slather that with some waterproof grease when I put the whole thing back together in a few weeks.

The bigger question for today is the hull. I'll post some pictures below, but here's my situation. I want to keep the boat in a wet slip so I can get out on the water more often and more easily. There are a number of dings, scrapes and some cracks. (It is a 25 year-old-boat after all) Will those dings and cracks pose a problem for the hull if I do keep the boat in the water this summer? The previous owner(s) painted the hull below the water line and I would like to repaint the entire hull next winter.

Is there a quick way to prevent further damage that will not make painting the hull next winter a challenge? Again, right now, I want to focus on sailing as much as possible, but I also don't want to do long-term damage. I'm not concerned about looks right now. So, is a quick coat of paint below the waterline in order? Or just some epoxy work on the big dings -- and then really prep everything and sand it back and fair it next winter?

Here are the pictures:



Some of these have been repaired by previous owner, but others are I believe blisters where the gelcoat has come loose. What can I do in the short-run to prevent damage if the boat sits in water (enabling me to sail this season) and also not make it too difficult to re-finish the hull next winter? Thanks again for all your help!

[GreenLake]

Not sure the rubber in the gasket likes grease (waterproof or not). Consider Vaseline.

About your hull.

If the hull is nice and dry, now would be a good option to seal it.

You'll need to sand all loose stuff. For any deeper hollows you'll need to fill them with a fairing compound. Unless they represent structural damage,like deep cracks, etc. in which case come back for suggestions on structural repair.

You have your choice of using polyester based filler + gelcoat, or either type of filler plus a coat of 'neat' epoxy (neat: nothing mixed in). Gelcoat over epoxy is considered tricky, not the other way around.

For fillers (fairing compounds) use marine stuff, not bondo - the latter is a poor choice under the water line.

Epoxy does a better job sealing the hull from moisture, but it isn't UV stable, so you'd need to paint it. Gelcoat does not pose that problem.

If you want to skip a painting step, get a 3M polyester filler for marine use for deeper dips. Sand to get the hull into a fair shape (or at least locally fair). Then apply a bit of gelcoat paste with a spreader. (Make sure your gelcoat is rated for air curing). Sand smooth.

When the time comes, you can still apply an epoxy coat before painting the hull, as epoxy bonds well to gelcoat.
You can use the 'clear' or 'neutral' gelcoat, no need to get the pigmented or color matched stuff, as your longterm plans involve paint.

If you are planning to keep the boat in saltwater, you may be better off doing all the work and using an anitfouling paint below the water line.